GK : ST

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Now, Inquisitorial ST . Ever since they Lose their Utilities to Sprint & Infiltrate away. They became Squishy and Expendable in late t2-t3. They Become Repair Men for Vehicles.

2 ST they don't really contribute Much in Large-Scale engagements Endgame. Their fragile & Vulnerable to AOE abilities and they are easily forced off by Heroes . They don't really fulfil their Usefulness in Late game. They just bleed me and Often replaced by Another squad . What about the Mines? Their the least purchased option among GK players .

So,MY request is Can they Retain their Cloak & Sprint capabilities

[Sub_Zero]

What about the Mines?

That is the most underpowered wargear in the game. And we have such a bad detection system which makes it even worse.

And about their usefulness in t2-t3. With plasma guns they will help against heavy/super heavy armored units and can disable heroes. I doubt they are useless in t2-t3 with plasma gun upgrade. Scouts and heretics seem even worse in combat during t2-t3. But scouts can ninja cap and heretics worship and make shrines

[Ace of Swords]

They Become Repair Men for Vehicles.

What are scouts and tics.

[saltychipmunk]

snipers and worship?

[Flash]

tics - worship and shrine building, and cheaper

scouts - grenades, + infiltrate is useful for disrupting stuff and capping, + faster speed.

Both offer more utility late game IMO

[saltychipmunk]

Id give them either the sprint or the infiltrate , but not both.
or at least put one or the other behind an upgrade barrier


Gk doesn't have much in the way of infiltration anyway , but i can see the sprint added some much needed counter melee aspects.

[Ace of Swords]

snipers and worship?

are you seriously implying snipers are any sort of useful late game unless they are rangers?

[Torpid]

Flash hits the point well. That being said IST are very strong in t1 and that is ultimately where they shine the most. They're still a good capping unit in t2 with their sarge due to that burst damage and 5.5 speed allowing them kite and bleed melee squads, and still harass t2 ranged squads quite well. I think they're alright.

[Raffa]

Fucks sake guys. Has nobody here really had a look at GK?


Lack of hard melee (counter) in T1
This is a big problem in 1v1 (lessened somewhat in 3v3 because of the amount of focus fire) in that GK has no really capable melee or melee counter in T1. I agree with the reduction on SS specials, but it does make this that much more problematic. Instead, GK is forced to rely on stormtrooper grenades (at least 2, 3 is better) as the default counter. Hate to burst your bubbles but focus fire alone does not cut it unlike 3v3.

But Waffa that's a counter rite? Surely it's a good thing? Well this would not be an issue if you could watch the melee and time the barrage to hit the unit(s) and disrupt them, the problem comes from jump units and combined arms forces. Jump units totally negate your easiest ability to counter melee, I mean what are you supposed to use? SS backed up by a hero who has no melee disruption ability in T1? What do you counter initiate with? And combined arms forces make the GK player choose between forcing a lot of extra micro from a player controlling his ranged units (reducing focus fire) and actually giving themselves a melee counter. However this is not where they "shine" if they do at all, by any stretch of the imagination


T3
But Waffa these guys r shit in T3. Datz y we started this thread! This is actually where Stormtroopers really, really come into their own. Your synergy with the LRC (a staple in GK lategame IMO) should be triple repair AND since you now have a ridonculously hard melee counter you can either use storms for more melee counter or target and disrupt ranged units/blobs. Targeted disruption is so useful lategame, especially when you have 3(!) available, 2 at least. Oh and you just pop in if you're getting focus fired. Or stand a bit away, wait for the fire to start and then retreat, tanking all the way, again forcing extra micro on the opponent.

Trying to answer your questions (again) before you ask them. It's a habit

But srsly GK have issues but Stormtroopers are not one. They were just plain op previously. Infiltrate with plasma weapons is the biggest broken thing. Good thing no other races can access that now, especially with a unit that can move fast while infiltrated, with great ambush potential and really high dps, oh wait...

[Bahamut]

could swap mines with an infiltration skill. I wouldnt mind that

[Arbit]

Please, no sprint on these guys unless it is of the fleet of foot variety i.e. severely reduces ranged damage while active. They already zoom around the map with the sarge and WaTH.

Maybe drop the landmine upgrade and consider an expanded squad size upgrade in T2? Or a T2 upgrade that adds a second sarge with a melta gun + landmine ability? Just spitballin' here

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Maybe drop the landmine upgrade and consider an expanded squad size upgrade in T2? Or a T2 upgrade that adds a second sarge with a melta gun + landmine ability? Just spitballin' here

Least allow ST to retain Sprint or Cloak abilities. They can't escape or Infiltrate from Jump units/ Meele oriented types. Mines needs a Look at though

[SirSid]

Give them sprint

That would help counter the bullshit stratagy of avoding the GK army and ninja capping a win come t2 / t3 that GK suffer from.

If u are playing eldar vs GK and u get your ass handed to you in combat u can still win by ninja capping .. easy. same gowes for SM , nids and some ork commanders. It's just to easy to out cap them.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

tics - worship and shrine building, and cheaper

scouts - grenades, + infiltrate is useful for disrupting stuff and capping, + faster speed.

Both offer more utility late game IMO

THEY BOTH offer More ,Lol. I rather they give ST least Sprint or Cloak ability back.

[Kvek]

tics - worship and shrine building, and cheaper

scouts - grenades, + infiltrate is useful for disrupting stuff and capping, + faster speed.

Both offer more utility late game IMO

THEY BOTH offer More ,Lol. I rather they give ST least Sprint or Cloak ability back.

You said it at least 4x, no need to say it again.

[PePPeR]

Ive been playing GK loads and i think STs are not to bad but they for sure could be doing with a slight buff as they are a bleed machine and get wiped more easily than wiping your nose.

BUT, i believe they are getting a 30 req reduction which might be ok. It depends really on what the other units are getting, we might end up no further forward.

[Flash]

They are? Why? They don't need it. They're fine for their initial cost. If they were to get cloak or sprint back (They shouldn't get both), it should be t2.

[Kvek]

Ive been playing GK loads and i think STs are not to bad but they for sure could be doing with a slight buff as they are a bleed machine and get wiped more easily than wiping your nose.

BUT, i believe they are getting a 30 req reduction which might be ok. It depends really on what the other units are getting, we might end up no further forward.

Okay then, scouts then should get a price reduction too, Dire Avengers too, .....

[Caeltos]

They are? Why? They don't need it. They're fine for their initial cost. If they were to get cloak or sprint back (They shouldn't get both), it should be t2.

They're not getting cloak or sprint back. Stop asking for it.

Okay then, scouts then should get a price reduction too, Dire Avengers too, .....

The price reduction is one part of several changes to the stormtroopers, so it's a tweak.

[Torpid]

Well, you obviously aren't saying anything further about it, but if they are to lose some cost then they must lose the burst fire becuase I find IST extremely powerful for their cost in t1. I wonder is the sergeant getting some tweaks?

Or the grenade launchers, will they be made more viable so you have a better grenade launcher counter, me and Toilailee were thinking maybe it would be better if GLs only ganted 2 grenade launcher models but the GL's damage was doubled, that way they still had their aoe ability, but more importantly both their ability to focus fire heroes/melee (3 lasguns) and their disruptive barrage.

[PePPeR]

Well, you obviously aren't saying anything further about it, but if they are to lose some cost then they must lose the burst fire becuase I find IST extremely powerful for their cost in t1. I wonder is the sergeant getting some tweaks?

Or the grenade launchers, will they be made more viable so you have a better grenade launcher counter, me and Toilailee were thinking maybe it would be better if GLs only ganted 2 grenade launcher models but the GL's damage was doubled, that way they still had their aoe ability, but more importantly both their ability to focus fire heroes/melee (3 lasguns) and their disruptive barrage.

Naw see if you gona start all this shit then we are going to end right back where we started. They needed some love there is no doubt about that, wether it be cost reduction or any slight buff ill be happy not just because i use them but purely because they need it.

@Kvek, didnt i say scouts needed the same kinda buff, 20req reduction or just that 50hp extra. Scouts and STs is what i always said needed a SLIGHT buff. That dont mean you have to go reducing any other of their trait or buffing any of the other starting units of other races, they are good enough. Caeltos knows what hes at.

Ive been researching a few games. One last night, a GK guy 3v3 made x2 STs and a SS sqd, this was all done efficently and quick but by the time the SS sqd was just comming out of the HQ the other guys, Orks, SM and others had at least another sqd extra advantage and they were well on the field.... maybe caeltos has spotted this lag?. Maybe its down to the fact they bleed so much they attract vampires, i dont know but they do need some love.

[Flash]

They are? Why? They don't need it. They're fine for their initial cost. If they were to get cloak or sprint back (They shouldn't get both), it should be t2.

They're not getting cloak or sprint back. Stop asking for it.

1. I havent actually asked for this. I've made 2 comments that have involved it. I first mentioned it in the other thread as more of a nostalgic musing.
2. Here in this thread it was a comment thinking about balance mostly in response to Handsome and Pepper. Hence the if.
3. Done, and my apologies, it will not be mentioned again by me.
4. Is there a patch preview thread and I missed it somewhere? I only see the one from October. If so again my apologies.

[PePPeR]

Do what your told Flash, go sit in the corner

[crazyman64335]

flash you have 2 number 3's

[Forestradio]

flash you have 2 number 3's

He was following Monty Python rules of counting.

"First, thou shalt count to three, no more, no less."

[Flash]

Oops fixed haha. Monty python is the shit. European swallows are definitely faster.

[Faultron]

hi
i never played GK i just looked up once in botgame
does GK has really melee(counter melee) issues in tier 1 as Raffa said?
BC has 3 wargear in each set to counter melee + he is srtong melee attacker(nemesis sword+mantle of terra+Purified Blades)
ST mines are good vs jump troops i think and vs all melee in general(+grenade:he mentioned)
and there is 2 unit who can do supression but not a devastator i know:)
interceptors... dunno about these guys:) tier 1 not so great but still the best melee after BC, in GK.
Rhino is a melee counter too

every unit can do something

i noticed that if i have 2 ST i can use mines ability only from 1 unit in the same time is this normal or bug?

[Flash]

hi
i never played GK i just looked up once in botgame
does GK has really melee(counter melee) issues in tier 1 as Raffa said?
BC has 3 wargear in each set to counter melee + he is srtong melee attacker(nemesis sword+mantle of terra+Purified Blades)
ST mines are good vs jump troops i think and vs all melee in general(+grenade:he mentioned)
and there is 2 unit who can do supression but not a devastator i know:)
interceptors... dunno about these guys:) tier 1 not so great but still the best melee after BC, in GK.
Rhino is a melee counter too

every unit can do something

i noticed that if i have 2 ST i can use mines ability only from 1 unit in the same time is this normal or bug?

I started writing this big long post about all your points then changed my mind. Instead:
Basically, it's not that simple. The best way to answer your question is to play as them and discover their strengths and weaknesses for yourself.

I personally believe that GK have a harder time with heavy melee builds early on than other races do. That isn't to say they can't beat melee builds. It's very possible.

[FiSH]

i noticed that if i have 2 ST i can use mines ability only from 1 unit in the same time is this normal or bug?

yes. the cooldown is shared at the moment due to a bug.

[Lulgrim]

It's not strictly a bug - technically, the IST don't use an ability, they build a structure (a mine), and since this structure has a cooldown, well, you can't build instances faster than that.

Basically I need to make a workaround with a different mechanic to have a non-global cooldown on it. I'll have a look when I try to rework the plasma gun ability as well.