Last chance to voice your balance concerns for 2.2

[David-CZ]

I agree with Magus Magi.

[Flash]

Will the ist continue to share a global cooldown for mines for this release?

Looking forward to the changes, thanks for your hard work!

[Lag]

BTW very important! The LG heal armor still heals allies, still heals at full rate when in combat and is still insanely op for a t1 item.

[Dark Riku]

Why make this thread Caeltos? Just look at all the balance threads.
Like Tex's wall of texts among other. Feels kind of silly to repeat everything here.

@ Tex FTE is 50 red, not 75.

It's 75red!

Their Sarge becomes mortal once you have the Commie in the squad..

No he doesn't... How is it even possible you think this? °_O

how hard it is to kite (one o the slowest t1 units)

Speed 5 like most other squads...

and how little damage they actually do.

With their sarge they do 35.96DPS. For reference tacs do 43,74. It's not little. Especially not after a weapon upgrade to deal with the appropriate enemies.

Now take all of this and add the factor of no ability to wipe squads in t1 into the mix

Catas can wipe plenty of things on retreat, especially in combo with LC.
Not to mention IED's. The inquisitor and LC can also pick up kills in retreat.
(Only talking about T1 stuff here)

[Ace of Swords]

Their Sarge becomes mortal once you have the Commie in the squad..

No he doesn't... How is it even possible you think this? °_O

This is a general thing, maybe a bug, or I don't know, but when the squad is down to the commie and the sarge or any squad with more than 1 die-last character will make them 'mortal' as that either of them might die without the need of wiping the squad, in the GM case, I've seen both the commie and the sarge go down for first, except that the sarge dying is way more common that the commie.

[Lulgrim]

Uhh... why would it be a bug? The leaders distribute damage to squad members, and if there are no squad members they take it themselves...

[Dark Riku]

Uhh... why would it be a bug? The leaders distribute damage to squad members, and if there are no squad members they take it themselves...

This.

[Lag]

Their Sarge becomes mortal once you have the Commie in the squad..

No he doesn't... How is it even possible you think this? °_O

This is a general thing, maybe a bug, or I don't know, but when the squad is down to the commie and the sarge or any squad with more than 1 die-last character will make them 'mortal' as that either of them might die without the need of wiping the squad, in the GM case, I've seen both the commie and the sarge go down for first, except that the sarge dying is way more common that the commie.

What he said. Sarge and Commie can go down. They are not immortal, just the last to die. Catas don't have this problem and you never need to repurchase your purchased sarge. No other unit has this feature - if a leader is killable it is killable regularly just like any other model, if it is not then they either don't die or the whole squad dies. That is why he is asking if it is a bug.

[Forestradio]

@ Tex.

Hmm I always thought that Mind Blades only gave a melee damage and melee skill buff, not a ranged damage one as well.

Can Lulgrim or Caeltos or someone who actually uses this global on a unit besides paladins/terminators answer this?

[Flash]

It does.

[Arbit]

What he said. Sarge and Commie can go down. They are not immortal, just the last to die.

Last to die and immortal are synonyms as used by the community. Technically, the sarge/commie aren't accurately described by either term, as they're "last and/or second last to die."

Catas don't have this problem and you never need to repurchase your purchased sarge. No other unit has this feature - if a leader is killable it is killable regularly just like any other model, if it is not then they either don't die or the whole squad dies. That is why he is asking if it is a bug.

I'm curious if this has something to do with the catachan grenade launcher guy having zero HP.

Anyway, this happens so infrequently it's barely noticeable. If I lose the sarge off a gm squad I generally consider myself lucky that I didn't lose the whole squad.

[Lulgrim]

I'm curious if this has something to do with the catachan grenade launcher guy having zero HP.

That was my thought. I expect the 0 hp forces the squad leaders to distribute damage. But shouldn't damage to Sarge/DM still apply to themselves? Or is it umm routed via GL guy and shared? What happens if you snipe at different models in a GL + DM + Sarge squad (other squad members dead)? (Using Guide or Stims or FTE or Crack Shot for >200 damage)

[ThongSong]

I've actually shot the 0 hp demo man with scout snipers and high powered shot and seen it do zero damage on occasion.

RedRupee did some tests with commissar execute on catachans and if you target the squad leaders it apparently behaves REALLY weirdly, with commissar execute. how it does nothing initially and but ends up wiping the squad or something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPyvT427CGM

[Ace of Swords]

I've actually shot the 0 hp demo man with scout snipers and high powered shot and seen it do zero damage on occasion.

This happens very often, one day I even naded a retreating Cata squad, and it DID hit them, for 0 damage.

[Lag]

One more thing that grinds my gears is the Brother Captain blue ability thingy that he can summon an move around - not only does it force at least a portion of the IG army to retreat as it does insane, unavoidable damage, but it also does high damage to retreating units as well. Make it do less damage on retreat maybe?

[PhatE]

On a separate note shotgun blasts are getting a little ridiculous, they can knock back entire armies even if they are split. If it can be reduced to just 1 squad then that would be nice. Or do far less courage damage to the squad that's much further away so they aren't suppressed for just as long
.

I thought it only suppresses the targeted squad and "only" knocks down other models that get too close.

Or do you mean the suppressing effect should be reduced when Shotgun blast gets used on max range?

Just ignore that post, it's obvious he blobs up too much and then QQs about shotgun blast knocking down entire army.

Orkfaeller - It seems that it suppresses pretty much anything in a large radius. So for instance if two models from different squads are somewhat close together both of them tend to get caught in the blast (not necessarily knocked back but still suppressed). I initially didn't mean that but your second question after the or sounds like a nice idea. Even if it suppresses a unit that's behind the shotgun blasted squad they won't stay suppressed for very long.

Kvek - I don't think we've ever been friends so whether you're making a joke or not is irrelevant. Your post is something I have no choice but to see it as immature and frankly uncalled for. You've consistently made post after post over the past year or so either insulting, treating people as if they aren't as intelligent as you or calling them names for disagreeing with you which is not something many people are fond of. I'd like to think you're not a mean person by nature but you come across that way. So if you wouldn't mind at least for the next little while take a step back and think before you say anything.

[Raffa]

Kvek - I don't think we've ever been friends so whether you're making a joke or not is irrelevant. Your post is something I have no choice but to see it as immature and frankly uncalled for. You've consistently made post after post over the past year or so either insulting, treating people as if they aren't as intelligent as you or calling them names for disagreeing with you which is not something many people are fond of. I'd like to think you're not a mean person by nature but you come across that way. So if you wouldn't mind at least for the next little while take a step back and think before you say anything.

+1000

[Torpid]

Too be fair though Kvek's kind of right. How long has the explosive shot been like that now (the knockback/suppression, not the damage)? It seems unlikely it would need a change at this point; it's one of the most used abilities in the game and nobody has deemed it OP. It's perfectly fine assuming you don't blob up, it's always been strong, but it's on a very fragile squad inherently designed to be cappers rather than babysitters of the bigger marines.

[arnath]

Do not banter or discuss something between one another in this thread. Discussions usually never lead to any sort of concensus for the most part anyway.

While it's nice to see such vigorous debate regarding the Catachans, perhaps everyone should heed this advice. I'm sure Caeltos et al will make an appropriate decision.

But the mechanic is broken

[Ar-Aamon]

In 2.2 Termis/pala psycannons should work like intended.

[Raffa]

Oh shit almost forgot.

Please make Daemonic Fury (Raptor AC ability) a tracking ability.

Atm is impossible to use against any target not directly engaging your raptors in melee. All you get is your AC being retarded and not attacking...so it keeps bugging out like Flesh over Steel does.

I know Flesh over Steel bug out is intended, but that's because it's a What The Fuck Vehicle Pown ability. Daemonic Fury isn't - I mean they got the perk may as well be able to use it effectively.

[Forestradio]

Oh shit almost forgot.

Please make Daemonic Fury (Raptor AC ability) a tracking ability.

Atm is impossible to use against any target not directly engaging your raptors in melee. All you get is your AC being retarded and not attacking...so it keeps bugging out like Flesh over Steel does.

I know Flesh over Steel bug out is intended, but that's because it's a What The Fuck Vehicle Pown ability. Daemonic Fury isn't - I mean they got the perk may as well be able to use it effectively.

+1. If you target a model when your raptors are in melee combat, all the other models stop attacking and end up getting torn to shreds by bugs/boyz/shees/whatever.

I know that merciless strike does it too (stops other models from attacking), but merciless doesn't hit an individual model and is targeted along the ground.

[Ace of Swords]

No, but it fucks up heroes, and pretty hard at that.

[Toilailee]

Revert mek turret.

Turret without supression is next to useless since it does negligible damage at range, and it will be shooting stuff from its max range 98.5% of the time.

If it cost 5-10 power and ~150 req (like las turret) and didn't take as long to build I guess it could theoretically be used as some form of melee deterrent due to its high dps at close up. Or you could build several of them to be real be orky and dakka dakka, while covering turrets with each other with some weird turret placements to counter jump troops.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

patch notes mention an equalization of the the turret's damage. doesn't say how much.

[Orkfaeller]

Ya, adjusting the damage fallout is really necesarry.

Had a game lately where a termagaunt squad just stood at the edge of the turrets maximal range, and outtanked and out dpsed it.

[Indrid]

Toilets do not read notes.

[Toilailee]

Toilets do not read notes.

I did check the ork changes before commenting.

[Faultron]

fix the AI in botmatch pls, they cant target genfarms

[Lulgrim]

Does anyone know the guy who made the AI mod (Adratus) so we could ask about this?