Fc terminator and other stuff

[Lulgrim]

I am still interested I making the Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield upgrade for him.

[Faultron]

some ideas
-after a finished termi upgrade u got back the pre wargear resources(if not 100% then 75 or 50% depends)
-changing/tweaking or giving other weapon to him
-new ability or improved ability

the terminator investment is not only the worst cost/performance but negative lol

Should be reworked somehow in my opinion

Giving back recources spend is a bad idea. You could go plus from upgrading :p
Some other changes would be preferable if any are needed.

how you go plus? u dont got back termi price only the other wargears
(shops give money back when somthing shit lol)
in the curent state in elite, this is viable if nothing else is gonna changed to him. eco boost for SM is not bad idea.but i also wrote 50% which can be changed even lower, but the general idea is not bad i think.

[MaxPower]

I am still interested I making the Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield upgrade for him.

which would be so awesome

[Faultron]

In Retail i bought only once in my life the terminator upgrade in a serious match and i quickly realised it is not viable.
terminator upgrade gives you a weaker armyforce for T3.not to mention u waste all your pre investment resources.and if u go naked until tier 3 u pretty much loose:)
dunno how it works in Elite cos i didn not played much SM termi FC lulz! but i guess its still the same.

wait, in retail only once ? have you ever tried to use FC flamer, it's basically a insta-gen bash wargear, and also if your opponent is retreating and you are near his base just tp and cleansing flame it and whole army wipe :p

funny guy, this doesnt happen in every game
when you are in T3 , there is other option as well to do this things anyway.

and about genbash in T3: not so big deal as T1/T2
and most the time T3 is short period of the game or dont even exist:) so genbash is not the first thing you do.

[Nurland]

Losing a gen farm is not a big deal when you have tons of power in the bank. However if your opponent gets a rather fast Termie Flamer that is rarely the case.

[M4573R_CH13f]

no t3? how do you play?
flamer in retail was rediculous, although CF stillwipes out a power farm, only that you need to wait around 15 seconds.

Hammer and Stormshield o.O sounds awesome, but what is the target? he already is tanky and has splash power melee...


But back to topic, do you agree on the claws? caeltos, seen this?

i see the huge buff of WATH, but still, it does go a bit down to his t2-weaponry...

[MaxPower]

no t3? how do you play?
flamer in retail was rediculous, although CF stillwipes out a power farm, only that you need to wait around 15 seconds.

Hammer and Stormshield o.O sounds awesome, but what is the target? he already is tanky and has splash power melee...


But back to topic, do you agree on the claws? caeltos, seen this?

i see the huge buff of WATH, but still, it does go a bit down to his t2-weaponry...

The idea behind the Hammer and Stormshield would be to give him a dedicated av option. Anyways just take a look at the stats taken from Indrids wargear idea thread.

FORCE COMMANDER

Hammer of the Righteous (Max Power)

A dedicated AV option for the FC terminator armor.

Availability: Tier 3 (requires Terminator Armor)
Cost: 200/100
Weapon Family: blunt weapons - hammer -> melee_heavy
Damage: 105 melee_heavy dps on impact
Swing Pattern: The same as the normal thunder hammer assault terminators
Ability: Hammer of the Emperor - ability knockback - radius 10 (cooldown 50 seconds - 50 energy) .
Bonus: +500 HP

It would give the terminator armor of the force commander a good av option, cause right now, the only av he has is the power fist that comes with the terminator armor (and im just talking about the terminator armors av options - so yes i know that the normal fc has a good power fist). The kb ability means that he has some staying power on the field.

Potential Balance Concerns

It's too good! FC is too potent/versatile to have this (i.e. Max u FC fanboy - u just want buffs)! This could indeed be a problem, i mean u would get a 3000 hp teleporting hive tyrant with crushing claws. But - the tier it comes out and the price make up for that i guess - i mean the armor + the wargear would cost 400 req and 200 energy - if u didnt get any other wargear for ur hero.

Also maybe the terminator FC power fist should get a damage nerf, because it is only a sidearm after all.

[Ace of Swords]

I would say that the claws are in a weird position, so they would be better replaced by the storm shield & hammer, keeping the heavy melee trait, some ranged damage reduction just no more HP.

[Indrid]

I had an idea: give the FC Termie access to the Sacred Standard wargear for a cost. Would allow him to support from the backline with that recently buffed AC of his. Give him a cool late game ranged build. Battlecry is pretty clunky when you have the Termie armour and this would be pretty interesting I think, assuming it can be put on top of that model.

As for the TH + SS; you'd probably have to buff the damage over the 85 DPS of the fist or losing that nice storm bolter probably wouldn't be worth it. How about +300 HP from the shield (2800) and a 95 DPS heavy melee weapon? For like 150/80.

And is it true he gets HI with this upgrade?

[Nuclear Arbitor]

i don't remember if it's HI or SHI but it's not commander

[Sub_Zero]

This armor gives him heavy_infantry type of armor.
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Elite/Force_C ... Terminator)

[Faultron]

not just heavy armor but also medium size

[Nurland]

It's HI

[Orkfaeller]

Hammer and Stormshield o.O sounds awesome, but what is the target? he already is tanky and has splash power melee...

Terminator Hammers arent Powermelee/Splash, they're Heavy Melee.

[Lulgrim]

Hammer and Stormshield o.O sounds awesome, but what is the target? he already is tanky and has splash power melee...

Disruption/crowd control IMO.

As for the TH + SS; you'd probably have to buff the damage over the 85 DPS of the fist or losing that nice storm bolter probably wouldn't be worth it. How about +300 HP from the shield (2800) and a 95 DPS heavy melee weapon? For like 150/80.

I would personally lower the power fist damage a bit to give the hammer some neck without making it insane, he starts in ranged stance after all and the fist is pretty strong.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

terminator fists are 68 dps. something in that ballpark should still be perfectly viable. and personally i'd rather see his health decreased with non hammer/shield and increased back to what it is now with those; he's pretty difficult to force off and fast and cheap (after the armour is purchased) to use compared to other terminator squads.

[Forestradio]

terminator fists are 68 dps. something in that ballpark should still be perfectly viable. and personally i'd rather see his health decreased with non hammer/shield and increased back to what it is now with those; he's pretty difficult to force off and fast and cheap (after the armour is purchased) to use compared to other terminator squads.

Ranged terminator power fists are 34 dps per model (102 dps in the squad).
http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... ator_squad

FC terminator power fist is 85 dps (same as the power fist he can buy normally, but no flesh over steel for obvious reasons.
http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... _commander

[Nuclear Arbitor]

apparently i'm tired enough that i read damage instead of dps.

[M4573R_CH13f]

Hammer and Stormshield o.O sounds awesome, but what is the target? he already is tanky and has splash power melee...

Terminator Hammers arent Powermelee/Splash, they're Heavy Melee.

Sorry for that, somehow i read Thunderhammer.

[Orkfaeller]

Hammer and Stormshield o.O sounds awesome, but what is the target? he already is tanky and has splash power melee...

Terminator Hammers arent Powermelee/Splash, they're Heavy Melee.

Sorry for that, somehow i read Thunderhammer.

Terminators also use Thunderhammer, for what ever reason relic decided the force-commander's should work completly differently.

[Dark Riku]

Terminators also use Thunderhammer, for what ever reason relic decided the force-commander's should work completly differently.

Yea :/ The thunder hammer should be a maul, not iconic though for FC's, or some power claws. The power fist should be a thunder hammer since thunder hammers can stun vehicles while powerfist can't. Fluff being sacrificed to the dark gods

[Orkfaeller]

Aye, the powerfist should propably look like this, or atleast a one-handed version of it.





While the idea behind the DoW-styled Thunderhammer (as a two handed power melee weapon) mostly fits the description of the relic blade, as worn by HonourGuards.





Well, relic put the DoW ThunderHammer into the original Dawn of War ( actually a deamon hammer ) and they decided that thing is like going to be the figureheard of the franchise, the thing even was in SPACE MARINE.

Maybe because people who dont know 40k might wonder otherwise why its called WARHAMMER 40.000.

[Forestradio]

Aye, the powerfist should propably look like this, or atleast a one-handed version of it.





While the idea behind the DoW-styled Thunderhammer (as a two handed power melee weapon) mostly fits the description of the relic blade, as worn by HonourGuards.





Well, relic put the DoW ThunderHammer into the original Dawn of War ( actually a deamon hammer ) and they decided that thing is like going to be the figureheard of the franchise, the thing even was in SPACE MARINE.

Maybe because people who dont know 40k might wonder otherwise why its called WARHAMMER 40.000.

YOU HAVE CAPTAIN DIOMEDEEEEEEEEEEZ!!!!!!!

[Sub_Zero]

Well that just popped in my head. Why you have to pay 70/70 to get 46 dps ranged weapon? Such a big amount of resources and such a pathetic thing it brings. Only 10 more dps. Claws have been discussed here and it seems the most agreed that the claws not worth buying. The only thing that makes this terminator armor good is the flamer. What do you think about the assault cannon?

[Bahamut]

FC's AC got buffed in 2.2 beta

[M4573R_CH13f]

yep it's just under 60 dps now. it is situational and i personally don't prefer it, but it is right at the edge of okay. the claws aren't though.

[appiah4]

Only gear worth getting for TA is the Heavy Flamer, which is great against nid/guard blobs. For all the rest, there are always better and cheaper ways to do what they do..

[Bahamut]

if you decided to go for termie armor, is good to have the AC whenever you are not using cleansing flames. It's expensive tho, but is still an upgrade compare to normal storm bolter

[Sub_Zero]

And yet again I am talking about costs. Not justified costs.