Detailed Tooltip Mod for Elite

[Uncle Milty]

Hey guys,

I've started updating Kolaris' Detailed Tooltip Mod to display the current values used in the game.
As far as it goes it is generic enough to work with every new patch or beta that comes out for elite (since it is basically changes in some lines in the corresponding .ucs files). On the other hand I will have to change some tooltips that are used in retail as well... so for players who switch regulairly this mod might get confusing, but they can still decide not to use it.
I am now almost done with space marines and eldar and i try to get this stuff together before 2.2 final comes out. (dunno if this will work out tho)
Furthermore i know that Lulgrim updates existing Elite tooltips, if they got touched. So once this mod in the mod is done with, there's no more work to be done on our side most likely.

The changes i try to provide not only update the values but provide more precise information, like weapon range, damage per hit (for some abilities or weapons), cooldown time and some other stuff.

For example:
Old:

Code: Select all

Equips one member of the squad with a Missile Launcher effective against Vehicles. 19.4 dps Explosive Damage.

New:

Code: Select all

Equips one member of the squad with a Missile Launcher effective against Vehicles. Range 44, 10.68 dps Explosive. 130 Explosive Damage per hit. 19dps Melee.

I try not to overload the tooltip since there is a lot more information available but most of it isn't really interesting to the players who actually care about tooltips.

~~~

I am posting this specifically to ask you for help, because reworking it is quite some work and i got some other stuff to do as well. I know it will get a lil more difficult to keep it consistent but i am confident that a team would speed things up by quite a bit!
So if you want to help the community and improve the gaming experience especially for newer players, you are very welcome to text me on steam for more information (Uncle Milty there as well).
I'll provide you with any tools you will need to have as well as instructions.
It would be a great asset, if you have some experience with data structures and how programming works in general (you won't need to program anything but you will have to understand where the desired values are to be found inside the module (many pointers in there)).

Thanks!
Milty

[Toilailee]

When they're finished include it in the next patch plz plox.

[Dark Riku]

Missile launcher is 19.4 dps like Kolaris stated.

[Batpimp]

thanks for doing this. sadly I have no experience doing this or I would help. I have so much time on my hands at work.

[Uncle Milty]

yeah Riku, how about elaborating on that?
I didn't tell in the first post, but as you might imagine with all those values and numbers flying around, it is some work to get the right values esp for dps.
the 10.68 dps are stated in both these links:
http://dawnofwar.info/index.php?page=el ... rine_squad
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/S ... e_Launcher
and since the obvious calculation formula doesn't work for every weapon (srsly try it out.) and i dont recalculate every weapon's dps, there will be some glitches and bugs around once we will be done.
So plz provide some calculations for your statement.

Be sure that i will post a pre-release for everyone to check the changed tooltips to minimize errors in the end

[Faultron]

lol thx , i just was looking for this mod for retail today:)

[Lulgrim]

the 10.68 dps are stated in both these links:
http://dawnofwar.info/index.php?page=el ... rine_squad
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/S ... e_Launcher

viewtopic.php?t=251#p10066

I will modify the calculator on Codex at some point, when I think of a simple way to detect affected weapons (maybe "if burst && projectile"). May require saving more weapon data.


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[Dark Riku]

130 dmg per hit / 6 sec reload duration & 0.7 sec wind down =~ 19,4 DPS

[Lulgrim]

Burst duration must be included IMO (see above).

[Dark Riku]

Burst duration must be included IMO (see above).

See what? Your link leads to the start of the "I can't stop talking about Tacs n' Sternguard..." thread. You refering to this I think.

[Lulgrim]

See what? Your link leads to the start of the "I can't stop talking about Tacs n' Sternguard..." thread. You refering to this I think.

Yes, looks like Tapatalk direct links only work when clicked in Tapatalk...

[Uncle Milty]

ye Riku, i used that formula as well but for some reason it doesn't represent ranged weapon dps that can be found in the codices.
I'd like to see the exact formulas that are used in the game to shoot, so i could recalculate each weapons dps (i'm pretty sure, that a lot of values are wrong)

But again, that's a point that doesn't need to be clearified in this thread.
make sure to check out the bugbusting threads in near future there you can hunt me down

[Lulgrim]

What? I don't understand much of that. What codices and why would a lot of values (where?) be wrong?

[Uncle Milty]

these codices i used to get that 10.68 dps explosive from (links). if that value is wrong in the end (didnt quite get wether it'r right or not from your debate), i might check all dps values of kolaris' tooltip mod.
On the other hand if it is only a glitch with burst duration, some might be correct there.

[Lulgrim]

130 damage every 7.3 seconds (0.6 burst + 0.7 wind-down + 6.0 reload). It's because for some technical reason some missile weapons have a burst duration, and the burst fire formula screws missile calculations. I don't have the formula right here but it seems to calculate the damage for 0.6 missiles per pop.

130 dmg / 7.3 s = 17.81 damage per second
0.6 x 17.81 = 10.68 which is what the auto DPS calculator gives

I think this is pretty clear. Obviously it doesn't fire 0.6 missiles, it fires 1 missile.

To reiterate: Some weapons that fire missiles have a burst definition (I assume for animation reasons) even though they don't fire actual bursts of imaginary ammunition (like bolters etc.) but a single physical projectile. However, automatic DPS calculators such as Sturm's dow2info, my (Wikia) Dawn of War Wiki, and dowcodex, apply the burst-fire formula to them. Hence, the DPS is off.

All the other calculations are fine.

Savvy?


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[Uncle Milty]

Ok, i think i understand the mechanics for burst fire now. And if the burst duration shall be considered for calculating the frequency as you say, then 17.81 dps is the right number for missile launchers.

Thanks for clearing that up

Now i would like to validate some thougts about the specific formula for "normal" weapons on the example of the reaper launcher.
it has these stats:
Damage_hp 28.5
Cooldown 1
burst 4
burst duration 2
reload 3 each 6-8
and the changelog states 16.625 dps.

so my interpretation would be as follows:
it has to be reloaded on average every 7 bursts for 3 seconds, each burst lasting 2 seconds with 1 second cooldown inbetween.
so a full cycle would be
7*2s(bursts) + 7*1s(cooldown) + 3s(reload) = 24s
meanwhile it fires 7 bursts of 4 shots, each doing 28.5 damage:
7*4*28.5 damage = 798 damage
but 798 damage / 24 s = 33.25 dps, so 16.625 dps * 2

Where does this factor come from? Did i misinterpret something?

[Lulgrim]

The history behind the DPS formulas was described on dow2.info but the website went down ages ago. IIRC they were found empirically by comparing calculations vs. the in-game DPS values shown for campaign weapons.

They are like this:

Melee
DPS = damage / (windup + winddown + cooldown)

Burst
DPS = (reload_frequency * burst * damage) / ((reload_frequency * (windup + winddown + burst + cooldown)) + reload_duration)

Single-shot
DPS = (reload_frequency * damage) / ((reload_frequency * (windup + winddown + cooldown)) + reload_duration)

Where

windup + winddown + cooldown = 0

is replaced by

1

Frankly I am skeptical whether this is correct, but that's what the game uses and I never CBA to go deeper into it (I just assume Sturmtruppen and others maybe did). I wouldn't mind if someone bothered to lab some damage output and compare it against the calculations.

[Uncle Milty]

Ok, i used this burst formula in my last post and you can revisit it here:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%2 ... 9+%2B+3%29

to summarize: still not 16.625 dps but 33.25 dps. (dark reaper launcher)

on the other hand, 19.4 dps looks alright for the missile launcher using the Single-shot formula: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%2 ... 9+%2B+6%29

I guess we do need some testing on that ... shouldnt be too hard, if you do some video proof testing, but i guess ingame debug output isnt available? didn't check the console yet, but i am somewhat interested in what is displayed there.

[fankater]

Can you use bullet points for better clarity e.g.:
Equips one member of the squad with a Missile Launcher effective against Vehicles.
Missile Launcher:
- Range 44
- 10.68 dps Explosive
- 130 Explosive Damage per hit
- 19dps Melee.

[Lulgrim]

Not the most convenient choice if you still want to see the game behind the text box...

[Uncle Milty]

Hm, i still didn't get any assistance. I am currently very busy, so i don't think i can invest nearly enough time to complete it until 2.2 release..

/push

[Bahamut]

i can help out. Tho you have to tell me how and tell me what to do. I'll get in touch with you through steam