Project Balance: Tyranid section

[Lulgrim]

he CANNOT have fire on the move unless the bug with it gets sorted out.

Well this is the first time I hear about VC Fex FOTM bugging... so are you quite sure that was the reason?


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[Nuclear Arbitor]

that's what cael keeps saying. it caused his fire rate to get wacky.

[Lulgrim]

I was asked to reverse changes to its reload values because of some weirdness but FOTM behavior was never investigated.

[Indrid]

VC 'Fex is pretty much okay as it is IMO. The DPS is big and Zoans have such a good long-range snare. VC 'Fex also has a good amount of HP and can smack stuff in melee. Can also buff its speed with the Swarmlord. All the Carnifexes are really good and the VC is perhaps more specialised than the others, but I don't think it's "bad". A small adjustment/buff could make it ridiculous.

[Dark Riku]

Totally agree with Indrid.

[Tex]

You do need to consider the total cost for the carnifex variants though. They are the most expensive walkers in the game, and are purchasable in T3.

THEY HAVE AN IMPERATIVE TO BE THE BEST WALKER(S).

[Bahamut]

I figured it out. If fire on the move is out of the question, then the very best bet is to increase its range by a marginal amount. I'd say between 48 and 50 (from 44 currently) i think this is the best solution for this guy. This way the fex will have enough range to fire back at tanks but will still let tanks get away and kite

Its dps should not become much higher, it's already 50 dps which is pretty damn high (tzeentch dread has 46 dps tho, for about 2/3s of the price). Firing rate is 1 shot per second for 2 shots then 3 secs cooldown, i guess weapon cooldown could go down to 2 secs for a 2 shots every 3 secs pattern, but i'm not a big fan of that idea

The other obvious problem of the VC fex is bio-plasma as Tex stated, this skill does suck, altho I still think the VC should not be a generalist (right now it is the most generalist of all the fex variants) upgrade but rather a specialized AV upgrade so i rather see bio plasma changed to something better suited against vehicles

[Ace of Swords]

You do need to consider the total cost for the carnifex variants though. They are the most expensive walkers in the game, and are purchasable in T3.

THEY HAVE AN IMPERATIVE TO BE THE BEST WALKER(S).

And you also have to consider the nid eco, too many times i've fully wiped out a nid player with a nuke to just find 2 minutes later, a swarmlord, a doom and 2 carnifexes.

[hiveminion]

I think Bio-plasma is fine except for the obvious terrain-hitting tendency. It does brutal damage and the knockback is great vs set-up teams or Nobz. Even the Hive Tyrant's Bio-plasma does very nice damage on a good hit (I think it takes away about 50% of a Tac squads health).

[Tex]

"on a good hit"

[xerrol nanoha]

"on a good hit"

It needs to be more reliable.

[Cyris]

And after reliability comes, perhaps it needs nerfs to it's damage or cost or knockback or range whatever. But step 1 is make it a ability that consistently does something when clicked.

[Bahamut]

Is your project balance over for nids Tex?

[Tex]

No, its just going slowly now as I am practicing for the upcoming tournament with some non nid heroes.

You will notice however that I am choosing HT to be one of my heroes for the tourny, so it will definitely serve a double purpose!

I will post another link to a project balance game tonight!

[Faultron]

i dont play nids, but why venom carnifex has to be all-counter in dmg type?
when he has 3 upgrade
-melee tank
-ranged vs HI and SHI
-and the ranged venom which counters everything since it is not armorpiercing type, but venom like falcon has.(same to HT venom cannon) -based on retail wiki stats, and ingame exp-

what if we change to be rly armorpiercing? (and fire on the move even?)
still dont know what is the bug here with carnifex, only the fire rate problem? why we dont solve this with decreased base damage?

[Kvek]

i dont play nids, but why venom carnifex has to be all-counter in dmg type?
when he has 3 upgrade
-melee tank
-ranged vs HI and SHI
-and the ranged venom which counters everything since it is not armorpiercing type, but venom like falcon has.(same to HT venom cannon) -based on retail wiki stats, and ingame exp-

what if we change to be rly armorpiercing? (and fire on the move even?)
still dont know what is the bug here with carnifex, only the fire rate problem? why we dont solve this with decreased base damage?

Ranged vs SHi and HI ? What do you mean ? Barbled Stranger is an anti infantry AoE weapon...
By your logic, twinlinked lascannons, autocannons and shit liek that are an anti everything too, since they do damage to everything...

http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/T ... n_Carnifex

Yeah, change damage type from Armor Piercing to Armor Piercing....

It costs 700/200, ofc it's going to be good...

[Lulgrim]

Tank lascannons were pretty much anti-everything before the splash radius nerf, but VC kept the old 3 splash. Not sure if we nerfed it in Elite though.

[Cyris]

Tank lascannons were pretty much anti-everything before the splash radius nerf, but VC kept the old 3 splash. Not sure if we nerfed it in Elite though.

I believe it was reduced to 2? It's hard to tell, the changelists are difficult to track down and the wiki doesn't have nids :/

[Codex]

As far as I'm concerned, a VC fex is no more anti-all than a predator. I'm just happy that Venom cannon warrior broods are no longer anti-all *shudders*

[Arbit]

I've seen a venom fex spooge at some guardsmen and it one-shot three or four models.

I don't know what the hell anyone is talking about in this thread, so I figured I'd throw that out there.

[Faultron]

i dont play nids, but why venom carnifex has to be all-counter in dmg type?
when he has 3 upgrade
-melee tank
-ranged vs HI and SHI
-and the ranged venom which counters everything since it is not armorpiercing type, but venom like falcon has.(same to HT venom cannon) -based on retail wiki stats, and ingame exp-

what if we change to be rly armorpiercing? (and fire on the move even?)
still dont know what is the bug here with carnifex, only the fire rate problem? why we dont solve this with decreased base damage?

Ranged vs SHi and HI ? What do you mean ? Barbled Stranger is an anti infantry AoE weapon...
By your logic, twinlinked lascannons, autocannons and shit liek that are an anti everything too, since they do damage to everything...

http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/T ... n_Carnifex

Yeah, change damage type from Armor Piercing to Armor Piercing....

It costs 700/200, ofc it's going to be good...

check ingame again, and the stats too then comeback


the venom weapon in tyrandis HT venom brood and carnifex are not armorpiercing dmg, the paper says it yes but it is venom cannon like falcon since retail

you do like almost no mg on small/medium size infatnry with armorpiercing dmg they have 0.05 modifier and 0,3
and this modifier doesnt work on carnifex(and i guess the other 2 too), it is working like venom cannon since retail.
yes BS is hi and shi cos plasma dmg?

twinlinked lascannons, autocannons check stats again, of course they are not anti everything
and check stat for venom cannon wep family

[Dark Riku]

what are you talking about? °_O

Venom cannons and lascannons have the same weapon family and damage types:

Weapon family: brightlance_pvp
Damage type: armor_piercing_pvp

[Faultron]

lol cant believe u are high lvl player:)
i mean this with good sense, no insult and for all forum members.
it is funny to me nobody found out this problem.
i find the problem from the 1. minute in retail ingame, then i checked stats aswell and this was 2 years ago.
ask torpid he knows it:)( if he is inglorius gamer from twitch chat , not sure, but he confirmed this when i was talking about this)

http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/Eld_Pulse_Laser
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/T ... n_Carnifex

venom cannon was never armor piercing dmg or family i think

[Nuclear Arbitor]

armour piercing is different from piercing.

[Faultron]

i may find the reasson why is this in game

i think fex came out before falcon, and that time there were no venom cannon type damage, only by named ingame(or atleast when designed by relic)
so Venom weapons for tyranids were done so
armorpiercing family and dmg, but they didnt wanted to do a new weapon family so they tweaked exclusively these wepaons, staying armorpiercing.

then falcon came out and they did a new weapon family

[Bahamut]

what are you talking about? °_O

Venom cannons and lascannons have the same weapon family and damage types:

Weapon family: brightlance_pvp
Damage type: armor_piercing_pvp

this

[Faultron]

bahamut?
what this?

falcon and carnifex has different weapon family on paper, but works same ingame

in paper (in modulefile reading as well)
HT, venom brood and carnifex (and leaders with venom cannon-termas) has: brightlance weapon/armorpiercing dmg

the problem is this is not working as a brightlance/armorpiercing weapon:)

go ingame
non-nid race with brightlance weapon/ or any armorpiercing
and try damage small and medium infantry

now go enter nids
buy HT, venom brood and fex with venom cannon, and do the same damage tests on those target

u will know what i am talking about after this
this problem is since retail and i wonder why still like this in elite, atleast change the data information to match with the ingame values.(dawnofwarinfo, and dow2 wikia)

PS edit
venom brood works fine, normal as brightlance

[Nuclear Arbitor]

the differences between armour piercing and venom cannon are that armour piercing is *1 to everything and venom is .75 to commander and a building type and 1.5 to hi, shi, and a building type. accuracy may be different as well but splash also plays a role in this.

[Faultron]

the differences between armour piercing and venom cannon are that armour piercing is *1 to everything and venom is .75 to commander and a building type and 1.5 to hi, shi, and a building type. accuracy may be different as well but splash also plays a role in this.

nope as i already linked and said before
venom cannon
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/Eld_Pulse_Laser
dmg modifier to all targets(size) and not accuracy modifier!

1 huge(Avatar)
0.75 large(Wraithlord)
0.5625 medium(terminator)
0.5625 small(regualr infantry)
0.14 tiny(cute rippers)

armorpiercing
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/E ... rightlance
dmg modifier to all targets(size) and not accuracy modifier!

1
1
0.3
0.05
0.01

it is absolutely different weapon
difference is huge imba op wtf category:)

nids have 3 units and 1 commander with venom weapon, pretty versitate:)

[Lulgrim]

Fex venom cannon is brightlance family, armor piercing damage. Splash of 2 and damage of 0.6 between 0.5 - 1.5 distance and 0.4 between 1.5 - 2.0 distance makes it stronger vs. infantry than lascannons. Now calm down.

Avatar is not huge, only Land Raiders are. Terminators are large, not medium. Stop spamming incorrect information or I will stop it.