Eldar Howling Banshees - Chase Potential

[Dark Riku]

Well if it still has that damage buff the damage to tacs in close combat doesn't add up anymore ~~

[Vapor]

It does if you include the 0.85 modifier

[Dark Riku]

It does if you include the 0.85 modifier

That's only in effect on retreat

[Vapor]

lol, maybe you weren't using channeling runes that time? I wanted to test but nobody else volunteered, maybe tomorrow.

[Asmon]

Pretty sure Caeltos removed the damage buff from ChR.

[Codex]

I think the safest thing to do is redo the whole lab without channeling runes.

[Dark Riku]

Please someone do! Or help me with it when I have more time next week or the week after. Probably a good idea too to test with something like sluggas vs something that doesn't have all these modifiers like melee resistance. And we should make the squad that is being attacked have 1 model only too I think.

[KanKrusha]

Hi Guys

melee resistance should not work in retreat - it is in the ability itself rather than a modifier applied by retreat (can_work_in_retreat = false)

In Beta 8 the files say Channeling runes does not modify damage

So it should be 35*1.3*1.3*0.85 = 50 (which you say it is not)

Melee damage on retreat is not an exclusive modifier, but it is possible armour damage modifier is exclusive. That would be a terrible bug for Relic to have made and seems unlikely but it would work out at 35*1.3*0.85 = 38.7

Sorry, that probably did not help at all

[Dark Riku]

An aura is always active. Even on retreat. Just look at the FC banner. Your units don't lose the aura benefits when he retreat until he's too far away of course.

Melee Resistance Aura
[full details]
Heroes and most melee units
This unit always takes 40% less damage from melee weapons.
Does not affect damage from ranged weapons.
Requires Default ability
Cost Always active

[Asmon]

I'll try to retrieve where I was told melee resistance should not work on retreat. It might have been during a dev talk though.

[KanKrusha]

Aaah snap, each ability also has a stop_ability_on_retreat setting and it is false for both mellee resist and the banner aura

They do both have can_work_on_retreat ='false though; so, does banner work on units that are retreating past the commander?

(I assume can work on retreat applies to the target squad of the ability)

[Raffa]

On the wikia it says retreating removes all "defensive bonuses". I'm guessing that's supposed to include Melee resistance?

Riku catch me on steam later we'll lab it if you want.

[Dark Riku]

On the wikia it says retreating removes all "defensive bonuses". I'm guessing that's supposed to include Melee resistance?

No It's like KanKrusha said.

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

High risk high rewars. Tis the

[Pandemic]

http://youtu.be/Dr5sfjK09AE?t=10m41s&hd=1

This is an example of banshee chasing, not the one i had in mind when i made this thread but it does show how stupid their chasing is.

[Faultron]

http://youtu.be/Dr5sfjK09AE?t=10m41s&hd=1

This is an example of banshee chasing, not the one i had in mind when i made this thread but it does show how stupid their chasing is.

this is an example, how you not fight vs eldar:)

[Pandemic]

http://youtu.be/Dr5sfjK09AE?t=10m41s&hd=1

This is an example of banshee chasing, not the one i had in mind when i made this thread but it does show how stupid their chasing is.

this is an example, how you not fight vs eldar:)

Doesn't matter how the players played it matters about how far the banshees chased his units. Well done missing the entire point of this thread.

[crazyman64335]

http://youtu.be/Dr5sfjK09AE?t=10m41s&hd=1

This is an example of banshee chasing, not the one i had in mind when i made this thread but it does show how stupid their chasing is.

this is an example, how you not fight vs eldar:)

Doesn't matter how the players played it matters about how far the banshees chased his units. Well done missing the entire point of this thread.

it DOES matter how players play against eldar, you should never retreat units when banshees are already bashing on them, because banshees are a faster unit by nature. The sm player overextended and suffered for it, same way alot of things work if you overextend.

[Pandemic]

it DOES matter how players play against eldar, you should never retreat units when banshees are already bashing on them, because banshees are a faster unit by nature. The sm player overextended and suffered for it, same way alot of things work if you overextend.

No, it really doesn't.

Banshees can chase units across the map (as you can very obviously see in the video) and it makes them insanely good at killing squads in retreat even unfairly so, i think the banshees are fine in general combat but their speed buffs gives them so much potential that literally allows you to chase a squad across the entire map and that is complete bullshit,if a unit is wiped for overextending and gets flanked or something fair enough but it should be within 3 - 4 seconds however it should NEVER be alright for a squad to be chased and wiped after retreating for 15-ish seconds across pretty much the entire bloody map.

[Torpid]

If banshees didn't have their retreat killing potential, given their current state in combat I would never purchase them as WSE/FS and extremely rarely as the WL (only vs nids, and 2x ASM builds).

[Pandemic]

If banshees didn't have their retreat killing potential, given their current state in combat I would never purchase them as WSE/FS and extremely rarely as the WL (only vs nids, and 2x ASM builds).

Then find ways to make them good in combat without giving them the ability to chase a unit across the entire map and wiping it, being able to chase a squad across the entire map is complete bullshit.

If they can wipe the squad within 2 -4 seconds of chasing like other melee squads then fair enough but they shouldn't be able to chase across the entire map.

[Commissar Vocaloid]

Had this situation come up the night before - I had spotters that started retreating ahead of banshees before they were even on top of them - granted I thought "yeah, they'll probably take one, maybe two of those units outs if they use swift movement," but they chased a good damn length and eventually were just able to outrun them with swift movement

[Torpid]

It does show the strength of swift movement though, does giving banshees such insane chase potential justify a cost of merely 75 red? I think 75 red is a bit low considering the ability allows you to wipe squads/kill vehicles when elsewhere you couldn't and it's not like for the emperor or similar buff abilities because with them they occur at the first instant of the battle and you can just back out of them, but if you use swift movement at the right time then it is an uncounterable bonus which leads to the wiping of squads, that's what makes it different and you can't just say "well pre-empt it then" because that would require you to act in a completely farcical manner, never fully engaging the eldar force for fear of swift movement - because it could pop at any moment due to how little red it costs.

I wouldn't mind seeing swift movement bumped up to 125 red.

[Pandemic]

Bumping this up. Would like to see some change to make howling banshees less OP at chasing.

[Orkfaeller]

Make their attacks not tracking?^^

[Pandemic]

Make their attacks not tracking?^^

I don't think there is a way to do that without making them do 100% special attacks since melee attacks are all tracking?

but even then if their attacks were made non-tracking, that would put them at a disadvantage in regular melee fights so it's not really a solution.

[Forestradio]

Make their attacks not tracking?^^

all melee attacks track, unless you are talking about special attacks (and even then some of those track).

[Faultron]

Bumping this up. Would like to see some change to make howling banshees less OP at chasing.

again, banshees are not the problem... warlock is (wargear and global)

[Pandemic]

Bumping this up. Would like to see some change to make howling banshees less OP at chasing.

again, banshees are not the problem... warlock is (wargear and global)

And yet the wargear and global aren't OP when used on non-melee squads and do allow for better positioning, i would prefer if the global could no longer be used with melee squads and possibly lower the fleet ability duration for banshees.

[Faultron]

Bumping this up. Would like to see some change to make howling banshees less OP at chasing.

again, banshees are not the problem... warlock is (wargear and global)

And yet the wargear and global aren't OP when used on non-melee squads and do allow for better positioning, i would prefer if the global could no longer be used with melee squads and possibly lower the fleet ability duration for banshees.

this depends on situation.(banshee is lucky cos, when u retreat u take more damage from melee)
for example. fire dragons, wse, wraithguard or dark reapers are very good with those support, and there is units in the game which cant retreat and they gonna be in lot more trouble or the same as u used banshees.so u can say the same ,op' here...

VS eldar army u have to win the fights (with good initiation or whatever), or retreat in time otherwise u gonna be chased by any unit, cos of good counter initiation
and warlock makes this ,tactic' even more stronger/viable.
since sheez are melee u have to focus down first, when they come same like sluggas.
there is no chasing from bansheez until u lost the fight, so speaking only about problem 2 when there is problem 1 it is not fair.