Catachans' Improvised Explosive is OP

[Sub_Zero]

The current logic of detection system in the game assumes this rule (and you all are ok with it): "If I have a detector in my army then I countered all your mines without doing anything but sticking this detector to my army wherever it goes". And it doesn't imply to IE for some reason.

Why is it OP?

1) Too much damage
2) Hard to spot
3) Your units can blow it up being too close if you don't pay attention
4) Initially better than any mine (you can trigger your explosion whenever you want - more wiping potential)
5) Works on detectors (OMG, how can it be, it breaks the concept of the system!!!)
6) Harder to destroy than any mines
7) You can't walk over it (even you have a detector)

Of course you need to trigger it manually but it doesn't really make any sense.

I've been playing recently with IG (1 v 1, 2 v 2, 3 v 3) and I can state with no doubts in my mind that IE >>>>>>>>>>>> any mines. And that is really how such things should work in the game (mines, explosives, traps). But as long as current system of detection exist IE can be considered as overpowered.

[David-CZ]

IE are good and annoying, but that's it. I've never seen a game in which they'd be the decisive factor. When used to protect points you can easily cap from the other side to minimize the danger. And they can't be used on retreat paths that often due to the fact they can be spotted. Also have you seen the TM's mines? They trash light infantry and can be spammed quite a lot.

[Ace of Swords]

A

nd they can't be used on retreat paths that often due to the fact they can be spotted.

wat

you can still detonate them while spotted and yes they are OP in retreat, I think the damage is ok, but they shouldn't do knockback on retreating units.

[David-CZ]

And they can't be used on retreat paths that often due to the fact they can be spotted.

wat

you can still detonate them while spotted and yes they are OP in retreat, I think the damage is ok, but they shouldn't do knockback on retreating units.

I know they can be detonated while spotted. It's just not very likely you'll simply leave them lying around once you spot them. And since retreat paths are paths you usually have to first go on before retreating the probability of having one of the IE explode into your face isn't high. Though I didn't know they knockback on retreat. That definitely is wrong.

[Orkfaeller]

I just wished they had a few less XP, it takes quite a while to clear them IMHO

[Sub_Zero]

IE work perfectly as a melee counter and it is not the case with mines. Melee units just run over them...

Also have you seen the TM's mines?

They detonate when stepped on even by a single model. And that means if the squad is spreaded out then its members won't be damaged badly. But when you are responsible for the explosion you can wait out for a good moment to gib an entire squad.

that often due to the fact they can be spotted.

Yes, it is right, but in reality people sometimes cannot detect them with their eyes and walk over them and here comes the explosion! That should be the case with mines too. But in their current state mines forgive all mistakes.

Have to add that IE don't hurt your army unless it is destroyed and some of your squads are nearby. Mines hurt you all the way...

P. S. Actually I was trying to make you think yet again about current detection system. And exactly why IE are so good and mines are so bad. And both things are kinda the same (punish your for not seeing them). Double standarts?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=300 Here is the topic I created a while ago. 90% guys who wrote their posts there disagreed with me. It will be interesting to see their reaction on this topic. Let's find out who has double standarts here.

[Vapor]

I would like to point out that the KNob's booby traps work the same way as the catachan traps. Unfortunately, placing them is buggy and doesn't seem to work on uneven terrain. Has anyone experienced this with either type of trap? Once I literally tried 10+ times to lay down a trap then gave up and swapped to a new wargear.

[Dark Riku]

IE are good and annoying, but that's it. I've never seen a game in which they'd be the decisive factor.

I've seen plenty of game where they are a decisive factor. Blowing 1 or even 2 squads to their deaths because they happened to be placed in the retreat path or just weren't spotted by the enemy because they are so damn small. You should however be cautious when you see your enemy has catachans but you can only do so much. Knockback on retreat definitely has to go. I would nerf them even further because I think they are way to potent and cost effective on an already very versatile squad.

[Torpid]

I think IEDs are pretty OP to be honest, wiping squads in retreat like that, forcing detectors against races such as eldar. I would much prefer catachans were better at cc/anti-suppression and got their old ol' reliable damage back and IED got a large energy/cd increase.

[SirSid]

IE are good and annoying, but that's it. I've never seen a game in which they'd be the decisive factor.

I've seen plenty of game where they are a decisive factor. Blowing 1 or even 2 squads to their deaths because they happened to be placed in the retreat path or just weren't spotted by the enemy because they are so damn small. You should however be cautious when you see your enemy has catachans but you can only do so much. Knockback on retreat definitely has to go. I would nerf them even further because I think they are way to potent and cost effective on an already very versatile squad.

+1 i agree with this


I have been complaining about IED strength for a long time, they most certely can be a deciding factor in matches and vs IG players who use them well they ususaly are.

The other problem i have with them is that they are much more effective vs some armys. SM for eg. get slowed down capping however with paying some attention it is not that bad to the over all game , they do what they are ment to delay and anoy. However vs other races like eldar or nids they are much more dangrous, just finding and dealing with them requiers 2 units insted of 1 and a mistake is more costly, dier avengers almost never live a attack.

[Vapor]

I would much prefer catachans were better at cc/anti-suppression and got their old ol' reliable damage back and IED got a large energy/cd increase.

I like where you're going with this but I think reducing the damage (and possibly removing the retreat knockback) would be better than increasing the energy cost/cd. I agree that catachans should get something in return for the nerf.

[Torpid]

They're an energy intensive squad though, if it wouldn't wipe squads (like what often happens when scouts with sarge are stood on it as it is) then I'm not I would bother to deploy them, that's why I would rather increase energy as it makes sure there is some sort of trade-off between planting IEDs everywhere and using your other CC abilities, and with a buffed 'ol reliable that trade-off would be even larger. To be fair though I wouldn't mind seeing IEDs go, they're a seemingly random novelty on a unit whose purpose really isn't to force a detector...