Eldar Topic

[Kvek]

Chaos doesn't need any teleporters (transporters). They are good on their own

[PanKiller]

Eldars dont need either so why they have?

[Dark Riku]

.....
chaos , ....which units are just weaker loyalist counterparts .

No lies pls. k, thx, bye.

[Kvek]

Eldars dont need either so why they have?

Beacause eldar are fucking OP

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Chaos doesn't need any teleporters (transporters). They are good on their own

Chaos doesn't need teleporters, but IMHO needs a damn reinforce in field, even if it comes only in T3.

Please don't make off-topics

In-topic. It would be interesting to know the Caeltos' opinion about Waygates and the Haywire grenade.

[Dark Riku]

Both the sorc and PC have a way to reinforce on the field.

[Codex]

For reference, a worshipped nurgle shrine and bloodletter summoning global allows for reinforce in the field (in elite mod).

[PanKiller]

It doesnt move .

[Kvek]

Yeah that's true but. Nurgle shrine does nice AoE heal and the summoning summons bloodletters.

[Raffa]

Only reason eldar are op is gayts.

To use an example, saw giddolo beat tyger's chaos lord using 4 gayts. Tyger then went eldar and beat him in a mirror.

For reference, Gid mains eldar. Tyger mains chaos

[Codex]

Raffa that's not proof of anything and you should know better.

Anyone can beat any one else, we're all human and make exploitable mistakes.

That said I do believe Tyger is a far better player than Giddolo, but you can't hold this up as proof that Gates are OP.

[Kvek]

Gayts are OP but they have more OP shit
Guide+Doom=60% more damage taken on a target
and even more shit

[Vinyl41]

that shit again kvek ? doom is countered with retreat or just pulling your "doomed" unit for the duration back guided shees are countered by knockback ;] shees need 3 seconds to get up from shootie skill and guide lasts 10 seconds so i nice timed kb will totaly negate it and there are many better ways to use guide btw

[Raffa]

guide+doom not op. it's called a combo

[Kvek]

Okay. Hope you will have that in retreat path too
Or Farsight-gayt-and that shit in RP

[Dark Riku]

that shit again kvek ? doom is countered with retreat or just pulling your "doomed" unit for the duration back

Yeah, not a good idea when engaged with shees already....
Because that's the time when it is used.
People don't use it just on incoming squads that can easily get out.

[Raffa]

That said I do believe Tyger is a far better player than Giddolo, but you can't hold this up as proof that Gates are OP.

That is my point. Tyger is a far better player than Giddolo. He was the better player up to T2 and then Gid made good use of gayts to turn it around. And I mean gayts were the reason the tide turned. The fact that a better player loses while maining and then wins a mirror...

Of course this isn't conclusive proof. It's just an example to illustrate a point

[Asmon]

Haywire is the best vehicle snare in the game if we dont count eldricht/promixity mines

Ever heard of Orb and FoS?

Gayts are OP but they have more OP shit
Guide+Doom=60% more damage taken on a target

Your maths are wrong. As is your logic.

gates are a pain they are dirt cheap and have no pop cost i remember that gates started first with a cost of 125 no cloaking and 5 pop cost but later they got buffed and in mod they got totaly hyped to the sky ;]
i sugest 100 red and 5 pop - FIXED

Keep suggesting dude.

And riku, we cannot get rid of the snare on haywires because that's the only snare Eldar have. We might reduce the damage, or make the throw like Orb's and GK nades.

[Dark Riku]

Haywire is the best vehicle snare in the game if we dont count eldricht/promixity mines

Ever heard of Orb and FoS?

Yes, and neither of them are a point and click auto hit thing.

And riku, we cannot get rid of the snare on haywires because that's the only snare Eldar have. We might reduce the damage, or make the throw like Orb's and GK nades.

Snare and no disable is fine for me too.
I thought People would rather keep the stun though.

Or need to throw it a la orb would be a good change too.
I don't see why the Eldar snare nade needs to have 3 effects though while the others all only have 2.

Because as for now it's a little too efficient (TM Eldar I guess?)

[Codex]

That is my point. Tyger is a far better player than Giddolo. He was the better player up to T2 and then Gid made good use of gayts to turn it around. And I mean gayts were the reason the tide turned. The fact that a better player loses while maining and then wins a mirror...

Of course this isn't conclusive proof. It's just an example to illustrate a point

It's not a good form of argumentation. People could choose to disbelieve you, or might not know who Giddolo or Tyger are. It would benefit people more if you just made arguments from objective viewpoints.

[Vinyl41]

i might get shouted now hard but whatever
i think shees are to potent at chasing atm ( lets exclude the warlock global for now ) lets talk based on a typical situation - lets say you have a hero or a single unit stainding there you notice shees aproaching from the fog of war you press retreat usualy you could think that your safe but well not rly :/ shees just activate fof and they get into melee charge range which allows them to stick to the target for a very long time because the chrge resets
so the problem i see is that shees have a to potent melee charge that paired with fof is just plain stupid how many times have we seen situations where shees were able to chase after a unit thru most of the map easily just because the melee charge reseted

i sugest we try to balance the meele charge a lil bit i dont request some infernal nerfs - i think some longer cd or a smaller speed buff or a smaller range on it should be sufficent because this problem requires some subtle changes

[Nuclear Arbitor]

we've been over this. a change to either charge speed or charge range affects normal shee use. giving the charge a cooldown is the simplest way to reduce their retreat killing power with the smallest effect on normal use.

[sk4zi]

we've been over this. a change to either charge speed or charge range affects normal shee use. giving the charge a cooldown is the simplest way to reduce their retreat killing power with the smallest effect on normal use.

thats a nice change.

so only the Gate-issue is remaining.

imho the Upgrade sugestion ist the best.
jsut make them expensive to have them next to vps and gen farms invisibile but not at all.
so a not invis gate with an expensive upgrade is the best the bes solution i think
in my opinion a power cost would be enough because it also costs power to detect them.
for this reason it should cost et least the same like it costs to spot/destroy them.
this is the 75-100/25 (req/power) cost for most of the champs whitch make squats detectors.

cooldowns are not the prob.
imho eldar should be ab le to place 2 at once to have a first way to travel.
in my opinion they should stay at their 50red cost but not invis and the upgrade should be rather expensive since its not needet for normal functionality
The farsight + gate combo may be rather effective, but ok its 1 hero and two globals. it should be not bad.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

i think banshees need a charge cooldown; they're currently the exact same speed as retreating units, maybe a hair faster, and never special so they always keep up. fairly sure sluggas are in the same state although that's another topic

[Vinyl41]

i think sluggas lost their +1 to speed that the nob was providing them - the reason to hate t2 sluggas on retail ;]

[Nuclear Arbitor]

they still get at least .5, bring their base up to banshees. really a discussion for another topic though; even if the units are very similar.

[Asmon]

Good players will chase with weirdboy's warpath.

Anyway, stop complaining about banshees. They run fast because they're meant to. If you're being chased by shees you deserve it, either it was a mistake on your part or you just got outplayed.

Except when they get out of gates in an unpredictable way. There you just got eldroll'ed =)

[MaxPower]

Good players will chase with weirdboy's warpath.

Anyway, stop complaining about banshees. They run fast because they're meant to. If you're being chased by shees you deserve it, either it was a mistake on your part or you just got outplayed.

Except when they get out of gates in an unpredictable way. There you just got eldroll'ed =)

Well back when Chaos Rising first came out Terminators with lightning claws ripped everything to pieces. They did that because that's what they're meant to. If you got owned by them you deserved it, either it was a mistake on your part or you just got outplayed.

Oh, yeah polemic is such a great tool if you wanna argue, eh?

Anyways, on a more serious note. If the majority thinks that banshees are too strong or too fast, maybe they just are too strong or too fast. You might wanna think about that.

I hope you get my point.

[Dark Riku]

...

Anyway, stop complaining about banshees. They run fast because they're meant to. If you're being chased by shees you deserve it, either it was a mistake on your part or you just got outplayed.

.....

Fuck no. Kinetic shot from the FoW isn't something you can play around.
and there are so much other bullshit things Eldar have.
Like the gayts you mentioned.

Shees are also meant to be fragile which we all know they aren't.

[Lulgrim]

Banshee charge:

12 range
4 duration
+3 speed
6 cooldown

Stats are exactly identical to e.g. Sluggas and Tics.