Space Marine Devastator Centurions

[ThongSong]

Not sure if this is a slowpoke but wouldit it be hilar- awesome if we could rock out these guys in Elite? They'd be like the bastard child of the Grey Knight Dreadknight



http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Cent ... ult_Squads

[Pandemic]

NO.

DO NOT INCLUDE THESE ABOMINATIONS.

[ChrisNihilus]

So awesome.

But I don't know if they are needed in the game.

[Orkfaeller]

Beside that we neither have animations nor a model for them :

NO.

DO NOT INCLUDE THESE ABOMINATIONS.

^this

[Caeltos]

I think the miniatures look pretty crap, but the art for them when drawn like this is amazing. They're practically mini-terminators. I read some of the backstory as of why they were made, and I guess it makes sense.

I believe we had a topic about this a while back talking about this, and truth be told - I'm sort of okay with the unit itself, but the most difficult question of all is, what would the units purpose be and how would it fit in?

[Lulgrim]

[Kvek]

I think the miniatures look pretty crap, but the art for them when drawn like this is amazing. They're practically mini-terminators. I read some of the backstory as of why they were made, and I guess it makes sense.

I believe we had a topic about this a while back talking about this, and truth be told - I'm sort of okay with the unit itself, but the most difficult question of all is, what would the units purpose be and how would it fit in?

better terminators, two powerfists and two stormbolters, just doing 2x more damage than normal termies, for the same cost ofc a good idea dont you think?

[Orkfaeller]

Those arent storm bolters, but heavy bolters. so more like 4 times the damage and supression.

[ChrisNihilus]

1) Take away Plasma Devastators
2) Make Plasma Cannon an upgrade for normal Devastator (why are they even a different unit?)
3) Put Centurions as the new "Why not?" unit in Tier 2.
4) ???
5) Profit

Optional)
Don't purge my soul with flamethrowers for this heresy

[Nurland]

1) Take away Plasma Devastators
2) Make Plasma Cannon an upgrade for normal Devastator (why are they even a different unit?)
3) Put Centurions as the new "Why not?" unit in Tier 2.
4) ???
5) Profit

Optional)
Don't purge my soul with flamethrowers for this heresy

I think the miniatures look pretty crap, but the art for them when drawn like this is amazing. They're practically mini-terminators. I read some of the backstory as of why they were made, and I guess it makes sense.

I believe we had a topic about this a while back talking about this, and truth be told - I'm sort of okay with the unit itself, but the most difficult question of all is, what would the units purpose be and how would it fit in?

The highlighted part is the question you have not provided any answers to.

[Surprise Attack!]

I think the miniatures look pretty crap, but the art for them when drawn like this is amazing. They're practically mini-terminators. I read some of the backstory as of why they were made, and I guess it makes sense.

I believe we had a topic about this a while back talking about this, and truth be told - I'm sort of okay with the unit itself, but the most difficult question of all is, what would the units purpose be and how would it fit in?

I'm in no way the most qualified person to talk about this, but what about just making them a re-skin of terminator space marines, except armed with Heavy Bolters that do exactly what a devastator squad does, except they can't retreat(+ all the other properties of terminators), have less range, don't do a lot of damage, but can teleport?

So, basically, a big tuff guy who can provide fast, non-setup required suppression(with less range) via teleportation, but needs support since its bad at melee and has to be closer than normal devastators to begin with? Essentially, like Termies with an assault cannon, except more suppression than damage.

[greenelite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fisXRmdTR54

[Pandemic]

Not sure if this is a slowpoke but wouldit it be hilar- awesome if we could rock out these guys in Elite? They'd be like the bastard child of the Grey Knight Dreadknight

So awesome.

But I don't know if they are needed in the game.

I think the miniatures look pretty crap, but the art for them when drawn like this is amazing. They're practically mini-terminators. I read some of the backstory as of why they were made, and I guess it makes sense.

I believe we had a topic about this a while back talking about this, and truth be told - I'm sort of okay with the unit itself, but the most difficult question of all is, what would the units purpose be and how would it fit in?

I'm in no way the most qualified person to talk about this, but what about just making them a re-skin of terminator space marines, except armed with Heavy Bolters that do exactly what a devastator squad does, except they can't retreat(+ all the other properties of terminators), have less range, don't do a lot of damage, but can teleport?

So, basically, a big tuff guy who can provide fast, non-setup required suppression(with less range) via teleportation, but needs support since its bad at melee and has to be closer than normal devastators to begin with? Essentially, like Termies with an assault cannon, except more suppression than damage.

NO.

Centurion armour is fucking BULLSHIT, it is one of the worst entries in the lore since the Dreadknight. NO ONE WOULD MAKE ARMOUR FOR AN ARMOURED SUIT besides this mod is based around BALANCE not new features/units.

Just leave the Terminators as they are since they are already balanced, Centurion armour is not needed. EVER.

[The Custodian]

First post here, wanted to chime in on this.

No. Please no... Marines dont really need anything new.

BUT: On the topic of adding in new units to replace stuff... From a model perspectve could we get a replacement for the Tyranid Venom Brood with the Hive Guard? I never liked the unit and Hive Guard would be kinda cool. Move the ranged synapses onto normal warriors (lets you specialize them between melee and ranged for your T1 warrior brood. Maybe swap out the strangler for a venom cannon)

As for the hive guard make it a medium ranged single model that can ignore terrain to let it shoot at the enemy with indirect fire.

Sorry for kinda derailing the topic.

[Caeltos]

I think you disregarded the part in my sentence

what would the units purpose be and how would it fit in?

Since I cannot answer it myself, I see no point in implementing it. I like the unit itself in it's initial appearance, and overall backstory behind it. Hell, I can eve see it in terms of visual background and overall performance, but I don't see the neccasary "NEED" for it to be added.

If a faction has a flaw, you could always fill the void, but at the same time, you need to present with options to counter them. Much like the introduction with Chaos Rising units and such.

For an ex.

Centurions wouldn't have to be a neccasary T3 request, they could be a HEAVY T2 investment that would provide a VERY SLOW, but continous moving barrage of fire. (Yet sub-par to Dreadnought AC) for comparison sake to make some differential comparison

- The Centurion would provide less dps, but more continous damage and have SHI(HI?) damage then other ranged infantry. Terminators would still provide the best overall dps output + aura and overall surviveability.

^ This begs to question, how would this best be shoe-horned into the T2 play that consist of usual builds and how would it effect the overall transition plays?

For an ex. Let's make it an Devastator "upgrade" similiar to SG/VG's that makes the squad a generalist, rather than specialist. Meaning they have the means to do all things, rather than doing one thing very good, but at the same time - presenting the means to allow for a strategical play that is different from Devastators)

Centurions reek of presure play from my perspective, they are siege machines, and by siege machines, it would be either the following;

- Long Range HEAVY DPS
- Medium range , continous heavy DPS + Surviveability (certain similiarities to Wraithguards)

My take on Centurions would be that they have good sustain, but their reinf. cost goes up from Devastator cost, yet they're easily taken down in melee combat, so their initial counters are still in-effecitve. However, the Centurions from Devastators would transition from defensive, to offensive play.

I could elaborate further, but people shouldn't be to quick to disregard a proposition nontheless without thinking of the possibilities and the trait of a unit. Just becaues you didn't like the Codex introduction of the unit and etc, doesn't mean they can transition well into overall gameplay experience. It all boils down to figures, design and implementation.

[Surprise Attack!]

I think you disregarded the part in my sentence

what would the units purpose be and how would it fit in?

Since I cannot answer it myself, I see no point in implementing it. I like the unit itself in it's initial appearance, and overall backstory behind it. Hell, I can eve see it in terms of visual background and overall performance, but I don't see the neccasary "NEED" for it to be added.

Sorry about that. I wasn't my intention to offend or step on anyone's toes. I didn't disregard anything about your sentence, I simply did not understand that it was a rhetorical question. I thought you were asking for people to suggest what the unit's purpose could be.

Personally, I don't even really know what these guys are, hence my suggesting that I'm not really qualified to comment on the discussion before chiming in.

NO.

Centurion armour is fucking BULLSHIT, it is one of the worst entries in the lore since the Dreadknight. NO ONE WOULD MAKE ARMOUR FOR AN ARMOURED SUIT besides this mod is based around BALANCE not new features/units.

Just leave the Terminators as they are since they are already balanced, Centurion armour is not needed. EVER.

I've obviously offended you in some way, and I'm sorry about that. I wasn't under the impression that this was such a touchy subject. Besides, this being a forum, I believe the idea is that we can have discussions about it here.

I'm new here, but since I've been here I've been under the impression that this mod, while based around balance, isn't closed to new stuff as you claim it is. I mean, look at the Grey Knights or the various Land Raider variants we now have.

[ChrisNihilus]

1) Take away Plasma Devastators
2) Make Plasma Cannon an upgrade for normal Devastator (why are they even a different unit?)
3) Put Centurions as the new "Why not?" unit in Tier 2.
4) ???
5) Profit

Optional)
Don't purge my soul with flamethrowers for this heresy

I think the miniatures look pretty crap, but the art for them when drawn like this is amazing. They're practically mini-terminators. I read some of the backstory as of why they were made, and I guess it makes sense.

I believe we had a topic about this a while back talking about this, and truth be told - I'm sort of okay with the unit itself, but the most difficult question of all is, what would the units purpose be and how would it fit in?

The highlighted part is the question you have not provided any answers to.

So awesome.

But I don't know if they are needed in the game.

As i said, I know that there is no real point.
But a man can dream!

A MAN CAN DREAM!

[Bahamut]

mmmm. Mobile soft anti all artillery unit.. ala autocannon chaos termies/dread or wraithguards

Do SM need a unit filling this role? mmm, did IG needed karskins? did chaos needed raptors?. But if they can be implemented why not?

[Broodwich]

Agreed! I think a veteran upgrade for devs would be fucking awesome! Absolute balance would mean every faction having the exact same units with different skins, what gets people excited is new shit

Happy New year bitches

[fok12]

Do SM need a unit filling this role? mmm, did IG needed karskins? did chaos needed raptors?. But if they can be implemented why not?

But, but... CSM did need a T1 jump squad. The only method of dealing with set-up teams was the GL tics.

Also, if we go on the "why not" front, why not implement a Vindicator, or Obliterators, or a Warhound titan, or a Leman Russ Punisher, or Wraithknights? My point is that 1000 things could be implemented, but there has to be a reason why they are. The example is the above with the Raptors.

PS: Happy New Year everybody

[Magus Magi]

I like the idea of adding Centurions as an upgrade for devastator marines.

What if the Centurion upgrade was used as a way of scaling Devs into Tier 3 play. (MY SECOND SUGGESTION IS LIKELY THE BETTER ONE)

Make the Centurion upgrade contingent on the purchase of one of the existing Dev upgrades. Put it in Tier 3.

FIRST IDEA:

Centurions on the tabletop have access to lascannons as weapons. So have one firing mode for the centurions be a lascannon shot equivalent to a standard Dev team. Then give them another firing mode that is equivalent to a heavy bolter team. The result is a Dev team with slightly more hp that can switch between heavy bolter fire and lascannon fire in tier 3.

The hp increase wouldn't need to be too large, they could keep their setup time, and the time it takes to switch weapons could be adjusted for proper balance.

It's thematic, and it sticks with the idea that SM play is defined by versatile units that you need to preserve until the end of the game. Just have the hurricane bolters in the chest work as the current heavy bolter does, and the arm mounted lascannons work as current lascannons do.

SECOND (PROBABLY BETTER) IDEA:

Make Centurions a Tier 3 upgrade to the lascannon/vengeance round devastator. Give them the standard attack of a lascannon Dev. Model the missile launcher chest on the Centurions and give them the MoT Dreadnought barrage (for brief suppression) plus a hefty health increase.

Now the lascannon dev gets back a tiny bit of its suppression power in Tier 3 (missile barrage), which it lost when upgraded initially. The vengeance round Dev gets better AV for Tier 3 (the equivalent of the lascannon upgrade) but retains a small burst of suppression (missile barrage).

Plus the Dev squad gets a larger health pool for weathering the Tier 3 storm, and the incentive to preserve them in the earlier stages of the game is much increased. The best part is that the Centurion would retain the existing Dev role.

Of course, all this is just me theorycrafting.

[xerrol nanoha]

Centurions are meant to serve as durable ranged units, more akin to walking turrets. Making them an upgrade to devastators doesn't make any sense, much less when devastators (with lascannons especially) are already very important in the late game.

I would not be averse to centurions being a unique droppod callin squad for the Apothecary however, since he has nothing unique at the moment to compete with venerable dreads or assault terminators.

But please don't touch normal devastators i like those.

[Lulgrim]

I've obviously offended you in some way, and I'm sorry about that. I wasn't under the impression that this was such a touchy subject. Besides, this being a forum, I believe the idea is that we can have discussions about it here.

You didn't offend him, but many people feel the Centurions are a ridiculous bullshit unit and disgrace to 40K pretty much.

[Pandemic]

I've obviously offended you in some way, and I'm sorry about that. I wasn't under the impression that this was such a touchy subject. Besides, this being a forum, I believe the idea is that we can have discussions about it here.

I'm new here, but since I've been here I've been under the impression that this mod, while based around balance, isn't closed to new stuff as you claim it is. I mean, look at the Grey Knights or the various Land Raider variants we now have.

What Lulgrim said; Centurions are a fucking terrible addition to the lore (No one makes an armoured suit for an armoured suit, it also renders terminator armour almost pointless in lore, which is established to be the most powerful infantry armour in the universe and Centurion armour is meant to be a golden age imperium design that was NEVER used in the Horus Heresy?.) and Games Workshop literally took sarcastic comments about their product line as suggestions for new models.

I despise centurions, but you never offended me.

[Bahamut]

dreadnoughts are already kinda a suit for an SM sarcophagus. Or by any sort of tank would also fall into that criteria

[Flash]

@Pandemic

What do you call an M-1 Abrahams if not a big hunk of armor + a big ass arty piece for a smaller guy in littler armor? Making armor for the armor is really not so far-fetched as you make it sound, the concept has kinda been illustrated by the progression of our own real world military machines. Making them tougher, more powerful, or more mobile.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

the centurion is like taking an astronaut and having him spend all his time in a bigger astronaut suit when better options are already available. plus it's apparently pretty bad in TT; too many points for too little.

[ThongSong]

they could be similar to Wraithguard, short ranged mobile artillery of sorts

[Nuclear Arbitor]

with grav guns maybe.

[Commissar Vocaloid]

@Pandemic

What do you call an M-1 Abrahams if not a big hunk of armor + a big ass arty piece for a smaller guy in littler armor? Making armor for the armor is really not so far-fetched as you make it sound, the concept has kinda been illustrated by the progression of our own real world military machines. Making them tougher, more powerful, or more mobile.

Your analogy is more akin to a guardsmen in a chimera. The soldiers inside have protective equipment that is more or less, preventative measures for small arms fire and shrapnel - not the heavier fire that a regular space marine would be able to withstand. Furthermore, the fill different roles because of the difference in mobility.

I have to agree with the centurion bit; they are ridiculous.