Elite Apo vs Retail

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

Any Tyranid played by an opponent of Torpid's caliber or so will be impossible to overcome. CL is rough as shit. Hes fine vs Eldar, IG is a breeze since they're total crap atm. Orks is a throw up on player skill and bleed implemented though their t3 will roll you. And SM mirrors tend to be horrid for Apoth as well.

Pretty much any mu that can swarm u in t1 and bash power effectively is gg. Though you know how i like two tacts into asm to counter that sincr it eases the pressure significantly

[Caeltos]

Please use the edit feature.

[Torpid]

And stop posting while high or some shit, man you aren't making any sense XD

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

Its this crappy phone im using bro ill fix shit when i get home on comp. I listed mus that make sense though so

[Bahamut]

Project balance SM chapter has been started. 5-0 with apo and 1-0 with FC so far. What are the worst matchups for him though? I know that LA and Chaos lord are absolutely brutal. What are the other ones?

So far I totally agree with people that the sanguine chainsword should not cost 25 power. I have used it in every game and it has felt underwhelming at 25 power every time I used it.

You know, LA has the highest win rate and Chaos lord has the second highest win rate so far according to lulgrim's statistics. Mighty coincidence?

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

Tex ill be on tonight willing to run any and all match upa so we can garner worty informatiob

[Tex]

Unfortunately I won't be able to play any matches tonight. Gotta get some sleep I need to make up for 3 missed workouts tomorrow. Gonna be a rough day lol

[crazyman64335]

Unfortunately I won't be able to play any matches tonight. Gotta get some sleep I need to make up for 3 missed workouts tomorrow. Gonna be a rough day lol

canadians don't work out, they're too busy drinking maple syrup aren't they? Just kidding

[Dark Riku]

Project balance SM chapter has been started. 5-0 with apo and 1-0 with FC so far. What are the worst matchups for him though? I know that LA and Chaos lord are absolutely brutal. What are the other ones?

Without opponent names, skill levels and races played those numbers don't say anything at all Tex. I will happily butcher your sm's whenever you are online.

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

Huehue. Or u can play some apo vs him switching aroubnd :p either way will cause for good games. Tex i think its time to brg back some double devs :p

[Tex]

Haha ok ok Riku. You probably would butcher me at the moment considering I'm only 6 games into SM after a super long hiatus. With that said, I will gladly carve out some anti-riku strategies designed specifically to infuriate, frustrate, and most importantly, win with the apo.

[Sub_Zero]

What about to give the Apo a global ability summoning by a drop pod Vanguard Veterans for 450 req, 50 power and 100-150 red? If all SM commanders are not going to have LC termies (that is a shame actually) then suggested by me ability might be a good idea. What do you think?

[Tex]

Again... so the apo should get a 6th global but we can't even imagine to have 5 globals for ork commanders? It's just simply not fair.

[Sub_Zero]

Don't mind any additions to other armies if they will be adequate. All chaos commanders get melee/ranged termies. I am trying to compensate that injustice. Because the Space Marines were the only race allowed to summon terminators in retail. And chaos just like that surpassed them.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

It Seems a bit cheap for me that Vanguard Veterans drop pod cost, if we have in mind the awesome synergy Apo/Vanguard Veterans.

[Sub_Zero]

We can come to an agreement on price. Now matters only one thing - is this idea good or not?

[Dark Riku]

No. They should become viable for all commanders.

[Vapor]

How about make LC chaos termies only available to the Chaos Lo*gets shanked by all chaos players ever*

[Sub_Zero]

How about make LC chaos termies only available to the Chaos Lo*gets shanked by all chaos players ever*

I suggested to give each chaos hero a unique kind of terminators. Nobody supported that idea.

[xerrol nanoha]

How about make LC chaos termies only available to the Chaos Lo*gets shanked by all chaos players ever*

I suggested to give each chaos hero a unique kind of terminators. Nobody supported that idea.

I would like to see chaos obliterators (similar to Dawn of war 1), but everyone and their mother has a raging boner for terminators it seems

[Dark Riku]

Project balance SM chapter has been started. 5-0 with apo and 1-0 with FC so far.

Without opponent names, skill levels and races played those numbers don't say anything at all Tex. I will happily butcher your sm's whenever you are online.

Haha ok ok Riku. You probably would butcher me at the moment considering I'm only 6 games into SM after a super long hiatus. With that said, I will gladly carve out some anti-riku strategies designed specifically to infuriate, frustrate, and most importantly, win with the apo.

I think we would still all like the player names. Because the games we played didn't go so well as your first stats would suggest. Riku(LA) 3 - 0 Tex(Apo)

[Torpid]

Well I think the LA is hardly a good indicator of balance vs any hero because he's just broke. The hive tyrant/RA would be better indicator. Nonetheless I had some games too and although they weren't ranked tex was using SM and it turned out 3-2, but I only lost one to a rather big bug which involves razorbacks being immune to wraithlord brightlances, so it should have been 4-1 and in those games I won twice with the knob, lost once with the mek and won twice with the farseer.

[Forestradio]

I have never played the apo in 1v1 since retail, since he was absolutely horrible there

A simple, but very major buff that could be given to him is increasing his default chainsword's damage from 25 dps (a single ASM model) to 30 dps (a single raptor/interceptor model).

Early game apo never really seems to be able to put any pressure on even weak squads like heretics..........

But then again, I don't really use apo, since I prefer that my hero kills things instead of healing shenanigans.........

[Sub_Zero]

I got an idea how to make the Armor of Apothecarion better. How to make it more attractive for players. As the most of us probably know that this armor used to have the ability in retail with a 50% chance to revive apo if he dies. Here in elite mode this ability has gone without any compensation. Yes, the Apo is very fast with this armor now and that is a very good thing but this is not a compensation I wanted to see. I understand why Caeltos removed all these ON DEATH effects (Apo's armor, RA's armor, PC's armor). Since you don't want your hero to be dead and hence you can't rely on an ability that will be activated only if your heroe dies. And now to my idea. Does anyone has experience with the TAU commander in the last stand? This commander has combat stimulatants that restore his health automatically by N amount of HP if his health reached M amount of HP. What about we give this ability to this armor to compensate its on death effect it used to have?

Also I want to ask you to seriously think about reworking the Blessing of Larraman. It costs less red now but it is not as effective as it used to be. Reviving on the field of battle is a pretty good option to have in your arsenal.

And my suggestion about combat stimulants is still relevant

[Cheah18]

So people in general don't think the apo is broke? i mean like 80% of SM players I see use him, and I find it extremely strenuous to deal with Tacs and ASM that have double health (because of heal) and can't be forced off the field.

[Vapor]

So people in general don't think the apo is broke? i mean like 80% of SM players I see use him, and I find it extremely strenuous to deal with Tacs and ASM that have double health (because of heal) and can't be forced off the field.

Double health is a massive exaggeration lol. I hate playing against the Apo too but I don't find him to be remotely OP. Except maybe the purification vials, those are a little crazy.

[Sub_Zero]

KILL. THE. APO.

That is my tip how to play agaisnt apo players. If you allow Apo to heal his troops then you are doing it wrong.

P. S. And it is not that easy to use Apo correctly. That is not like any guy can pick him and own everything.

[Cheah18]

ok I wasn't clear with the 'double health' there, apologies. What I meant in my head was more like health for double the amount of encounters. You shoot down the tacs or asm and you think, yes I'm about to get a model, and then pooffff they get their health restored and you have to retreat because your fighting 2 engagements.

Killing the apo, or at least forcing him to retreat, is far easier than said then done. While focussing on the apo his other units are shooting you, wearing your units down. Apo gets the health boost and lasts a little longer, and even if you do eventually get him the other units finish your units off, particularly in early encounters. The heal allows easy gen bashing too because the units can be healed and push up at the same time while your men are returning from their retreat.

Not ANY guy can play him but its not like it takes loads of practise, i reckon a few rounds to get used to it and you can play him (too) effectively.

And those vials should do less damage imo.

This wasn't meant to get me started just wanted to put in an off-the cuff comment lo-

[Torpid]

Most people view the apo to be the weakest of the three heroes. I think they're all pretty balanced at the moment and have their own unique match-up and map weaknesses/strengths.

[crazyman64335]

i disagree with the whole "Not any guy can play him" i mean i'm pretty terrible with space marines but even i know how to play the apo fairly effectively. Put tacs in front behind cover, shotgun scouts slightly behind them and apo close to them, so they get the aura.