Eldar Topic

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Yes, because we aren't bitching against the Capillary Towers, which are at the moment the opposite of what you planned in the beginning, for example.

Actually, they are used exactly as they were orginally planned. The miss-useage was simply due to exploitations and bugs.

IIRC, you created (or at least that was the reason) the "Infestation" global to give the Tyrannids a more-gaunts (non-synapse criatures) swarmy playstyle, which main advantage is going to be the lack of synapse bombs that could make fail you a battle.

But at the moment the Infestation global is a cheap permanent AOE speed increase for all the Tyrannid army, including monstruous criatures and synapse squads.

[Caeltos]

Still nobody asked for infastation and they should never have place in the mod .

It's simply because you don't have the insight & knowledge to understand implementations doesn't mean there was a thought behind it. Besides the point, there was a deemed request for swarm-race playstyle, and the trick was figuring out a concept to make it work alongside with it. It also has other functionalities besides that aspect however, but it benefits the swarm-race style playstyle more-so.

But at the moment the Infestation global is a cheap permanent AOE speed increase for all the Tyrannid army, including monstruous criatures and synapse squads.

And in which, the AoE Speed increase & bonuses benefits to the early-mid game tyranid which revolves exactly around, which allows for the tyranids to be heavily based on pressureized play, if the pillars are spread. It's more or less to be atmosphereical "Infestation" of tyranids, the more there is, the more you'll likely feel of the pressure from the player.

The two go-hand-in, but it doesn't neglect previous functionalities of previous cookie-cutter builds, however- the offset is of course how the useage is, and how it's utilized. Sometimes having too much pressure can be abit of downfall to some degree, depending on the how the engagements go down, but those technicalities are heavily variable.

[sk4zi]

are there any plans now to fix that Banshees issue?

sorry if i missed that.

imho the best would be just to add their special attacks on retrating units again ... this slows down their chasing speed, doesnt it?
its really a problem that they do so much damage and are not so squishy like you would expect.
its not a glass cannon, but a steel cannon
leveld banshees are terribile to deal with ... 40% more melee damage anf Healt (like all suqads geht at level 4) is just brutal, if they remain being so fast.

also this cooldown thout for the charge is a good possibility to fix them i think.

also the gates are still a problem ... even if i havent seen them that often like before.

[Raffa]

There is no issue with banshees

And I main Chaos. There are enough counters to them already. So much banshee hate...

[Ace of Swords]

There is no issue with banshees

And I main Chaos. There are enough counters to them already. So much banshee hate...

In a 2v2 i had banshees with aspect of fleetness in calderis refinery, they were chasing a 4/4 asm squad with about 500 hp left, my shees chased them from the mid vp to his base and killed 3 models.

I would say there's an issue with that.

edit: got the replay for proof if needed.

[Raffa]

In a 2v2 i had banshees with aspect of fleetness in calderis refinery, they were chasing a 4/4 asm squad with about 500 hp left, my shees chased them from the mid vp to his base and killed 3 models.

I would say there's an issue with that.

edit: got the replay for proof if needed.

1) was this in the days when fof stacked with sm?
2) If not then send me a link

[Ace of Swords]

Sent you a private message with link to the replay.

Oh and i just rewatched it, the ASMs were almost at full healt not almost dead rofl.

edit without making another post:

1) I was playing WSE
2)No warlock in my team
3)It was about 3 days ago, so no.

[Lulgrim]

I would increase Banshee charge cooldown by 2 seconds and see what happens. Banshee FoF could also be decreased from 10 to 8 seconds.

I suppose melee on retreat could be toned down from 30% to 25% but that might generally make melee on retreat less rewarding.

Personally I am not a fan of exceptions to fundamental rules. Banshee damage vs. retreating units was adjusted from 100% to 90% - I think going that way serves to make rules gimmicky and illogical. If their damage on retreat is too high I'd rather lower their base damage or global melee-on-retreat damage or tweak their mobility.

[Ace of Swords]

Lulgrim the problem is not the damage on retreat, it's not for them, it's not for any unit, even the damage on retreat of Nobs with hammers is fine, the problem is how they can chase for so much and still put enough damage to almost wipe a full healt/model squad by chasing them from the middle to their base without any additional speed or damage buff on the banshees.

[Ar-Aamon]

Lulgrim the problem is not the damage on retreat, it's not for them, it's not for any unit, even the damage on retreat of Nobs with hammers is fine, the problem is how they can chase for so much and still put enough damage to almost wipe a full healt/model squad by chasing them from the middle to their base without any additional speed or damage buff on the banshees.

Yeah, thats the point!

[Lulgrim]

Well that's why I threw out decreasing charge/FoF durations by 2 seconds eh?

[Dark Riku]

Remove the scorch ability on the brightlance pls.
Eldar don't need this free doom option.
Tagging every squad and just looking at them to die.

[Kvek]

Remove the scorch ability on the brightlance pls.
Eldar don't need this free doom option.
Tagging every squad and just looking at them to die.

What it does ? it is the same as FS doom ?

[Indrid]

Increases damage to the Scorched target, not sure of the exact numbers.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

100%

[Indrid]

Very much doubt it's 100%, unless you're joking.

[Asmon]

100%

Yeah sure double damage, must be the best ability of the game right?

It increases damage by 20%.

As the brightlance has begun an upgrade for shuriken cannon, ie not an only-req purchase anymore, it needs something more to compete with AV set-up teams that do snare. This ability is legitimate and not even especially good. I'll trade it for a snare any day.

[FiSH]

I'll trade it for a snare any day.

FiSH likes this post.

[Vapor]

Remove the scorch ability on the brightlance pls.
Eldar don't need this free doom option.
Tagging every squad and just looking at them to die.

lol is this post for realz

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

But the Scorch ability works in any unit type or only in vehicles?

[Caeltos]

It works on all targets, but it's only on a singular entity, not the whole squad, from what I can tell. Least the debuff indicator gives that way.

While Beam Scorch is active, the damage is reduced by 50/75% (I cant remember), but it will have 100% accuracy. I haven't seen that many people use it, but I guess it's because they don't know it's implemented.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

when you first implemented it you said it was 100% less damage on the BL but the target took 100% more damage and the beam had 100% accuracy. apparently that's not what it is though.

[Caeltos]

It was never of those values, those are just downright silly. Since its implementation, it never underwent any substantial changes.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

BUT I REMEMBER IT BEING THAT WAY!!11

seriously, i do, but i'll take your word.

so it is in fact 20%? and does not remove all of the beam's damage?

[Asmon]

so it is in fact 20%? and does not remove all of the beam's damage?

As Caeltos said, it decreases brightlance damage by 75%. And yes the 20% damage increase modifier is applied only to the entity actually hit.

[Manisz]

Dow community is prime example of Dunning-Kruger effect. Most people bitching in this thread (if not all) don't even play Eldar and that's the source of all those silly comments.

Again, people who know the least have the most to say. "I know nothing about this race, got no experience playing them, so let me tell You how to balance it" - That's Your flawed logic. Your inability to deal with something doesn't always mean something is op. But the funniest thing is that You picked to bash Eldar (15 pages) over many other, far more worrying problems to discuss.

On topic. Making gates visible is not an option, because we all know they WERE utterly useless in vanilla. Adding rec/power cost on already rec-hungry race is not the best solution (unless Gu and Shee ridiculously high reinforcement costs are decreased). I'd put a hardcap on them, let's say 2, remove pop cost, add cd and salvage feature. But honestly I fail to see how gates are op. The only issue with them is when facing FS, cause she can place them anywhere on the map due to farsight and THAT is something too strong imo. But that's FS, not gates.

As for the Banshees, if You think they are op ... Well, You are just bad.

[Raffa]

@manisz
Well I'm sure you know I'm not one of those people. Neither is Riku and he posts quite extensively too. Same with Ace. No offence but there is so much bullshit on these forums from some people it's unbelievable - can easily understand why cael/lulgrim are reluctant to make changes.

So yeh this is an open invitation to both of you - join one of indrids 3v3s and I will personally show you all the stuff that imo is broken. Would help aswell as you could discuss the issues with a group of players who actually know what the fuck we're doing and can give the most sophisticated suggestions. Alternatively I play 1v1s with one or three of the very best players on a daily basis. You're welcome to observe those aswell and I will happily demonstrate the current issues to you.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

throw a pop cost of 3-5 on gates with moderate upkeep and a 30 second cool down and call it good.

the only issue i have with banshees is that they can chase in perpetuity. kcsm can do the same but they do a little less damage and i don't see them enough to make a judgement on their chase ability against infantry.

[Manisz]

@ Raffa

Yes I do know You play some Eldar and You don't want this game to be unbalanced (again) which is good, however the only matches I've seen You as space elves were those, where You played against Ratax and if You remember, both -putting it mildly - didn't go well for You.

Problem with Riku is that he would nerf everything that's not SM. On top of this, he doesn't really play anything else than sm apo and when he does, his whole army is geting wiped, which is painful to watch.

Ace is not bitching, he is actually using arguments. Futhermore, he plays different races.

Sorry to say that, but You can't prove anything on 3v3's. No skill involved, brainless spam and completely different meta. It is sure fun to watch when You get 6 good players battling each other, but that's it.

[dance commander]

@Djraffa

I usually find myself agreeing with most of the things you say (even though I don't post much) but I'm on Manisz on this one, everything he said is pretty much spot on, the sudden surge of people crying about gates (there's always been people that did, but that could be said for almost everything in this game) is way too sudden and unjustified, since even people who have next to no experience claim that gates are OP.
Just the other day I had a guy who asked Ace to not use eldar because of gates, this is getting really silly.

Just look at this thread, half of the people here claiming that gates are OP can't even manage to pull off this "abuse" even if they wanted to, they hear some good players saying they are OP and like to parrot the same, both ingame, on the forums, and even on Rupee's and Indrid's casts. I'm not seeing the same outrage about nids towers, and yet those are a much more imminent problem.