SM Terminator reinforcement cost

[Phoenix]

Hello everyone,

I am surprised noone brought this up yet.

AFAIK the reinforcement cost for every Unit (except terminators) gets calculated by the formula

Initial cost/(2*model count) (for both req and power).

So for example shees 400/10=40 or tacs 450/6=75.
Applying this on terminators we have (650|100)/6=(108,3|16,6).
Right now the reinforcement cost is (150|50) though. How is this justified when comparing to gk which get "formula costs"?

Ofc one could argue that you get an instant on the field teleport but hey you pay 350 red for it.

I say lower the reinforcement cost, WHAT SAY YOU?

[Sub_Zero]

I think I understand why terminators cost so much to reinforce. Such a terrifying cost is supposed to remember a player not to overextend terminators. I will try to move back my terminators if they have 2500 hp for example because I don't want to pay 150 / 50 or even more. But who knows how soon they will lose a model? Maybe they will lose a model when their health will drop to 1000 hp or 500 hp? I wasn't playing classic DOW 2 or Chaos Rising. Terminators used to cost there the same amount of resources? I also know that terminators were able to level up. If terminators were able to level up and had the same reinforcement cost then some changes have to happen. 125 / 25 might be a balanced cost for all terminators. No discounts for Chaos terminators.

[Torpid]

125/25 for a terminator and 75/15 for an ogryn? No thanks.

Terminator costs are fine, you shouldn't lose models with them at all unless you are inflicted greater bleed or intentionally overextending them for map control. If you are losing models then why did you buy termies, they obviously didn't fit in compositionally.

Why are GK termies cheaper? Firstly it's their only t3 choice other than the LRC. Secondly they have a really long build time. Thirdly it fits in with the GK macro which much more unlike chaos and most definitely space marine terminators the GK terminators are forced to extend heavily into the enemy's composition if they want to be used effectively, this often leads to bleed which really wouldn't be justified if GK termies cost as much as SM/chaos ones do. Remember GK ranged damage is subpar come T2, they also lack artillery, suppression and tanks, meaning they act like orks.

[Lulgrim]

AFAIK the reinforcement cost for every Unit (except terminators) gets calculated by the formula

Initial cost/(2*model count) (for both req and power).

Actually each model has its own cost, and the unit purchase price is calculated from that. Reinforcement cost is determined by a ratio (squad property) which is generally 0.5 for resources and 0.75 for time.

Terminator purchase price is determined by the cost assigned to the global, so the model cost is only relevant for reinforcement. As for units purchased from the HQ, Nobs and Seer Council have customized reinforcement ratios.

[Dark Riku]

I say lower the reinforcement cost, WHAT SAY YOU?

Aye.

[Ace of Swords]

Yes, termies go down too often nowdays, base cost is fine,current reinforcement is not.

[MaxPower]

Indeed, lower the reinforcement cost.

[Phoenix]

Actually each model has its own cost, and the unit purchase price is calculated from that. Reinforcement cost is determined by a ratio (squad property) which is generally 0.5 for resources and 0.75 for time.

Alright did not know that, thanks for pointing this out Lulgrim.
But in the end it comes down to the same conclusion, right?

Terminator purchase price is determined by the cost assigned to the global, so the model cost is only relevant for reinforcement. As for units purchased from the HQ, Nobs and Seer Council have customized reinforcement ratios.

So basically if the terminator price was not determined by the global's cost they would cost (150|50)*2*3= (900|300) showing the reinforcement cost is a bit over the top in my opinion.

[Raffa]

The very high reinforcement cost was cos Terminators were so damn hard to kill, whatever race you played. Especially Eldar.

So yes I agree with a cost reduction - purely because every race is much more efficient at killing SHI than in retail. 150/25 should be appropriate; certainly no lower than that.

[Nurland]

Mmmm. A reinf cost reduction would be justifiable imo. Not sure what would be the correct new cost but it should be lower. 150/50 is just too much. 50 power for a Termie model is pretty steep.

[Broodwich]

Terms have got to be one of the most nerfed unit in the game, I think it's about time they got something back

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

I agree. Terminators aren't as difficult to kill as it was in retail, when such high reinforce cost was justified.

But in ELITE, with the addition of power_melee/plasma damage squads to races which had problems in retail with Terminators, that high reinforce cost IMHO should be reduced. Something like 135-40 to loyal Terminators and 100-40 to Chaos Terminators.

[Nurland]

Chaos ones could cost a bit more req. At least the LC ones.

[Ace of Swords]

I agree. Terminators aren't as difficult to kill as it was in retail, when such high reinforce cost was justified.

But in ELITE, with the addition of power_melee/plasma damage squads to races which had problems in retail with Terminators, that high reinforce cost IMHO should be reduced. Something like 135-40 to loyal Terminators and 100-40 to Chaos Terminators.

I think 135/35(loyalists) 100/35(chaos) is more in line with the current state aswell as upping the cost of GK termies, it's still pretty hard bleeding but not has much as before.

[Sub_Zero]

When we talk about terminators' costs we understand that terminators are unique. They can't retreat and sometimes you can lose a model if circumstances are bad for you. And there should be no such a high punishment for losing models of a unit that can't retreat. 150 / 50 is too much.

[Caeltos]

Here we go again.

[Tex]

HEHEHE sorry Cael, I knew I was playing with fire by making a nob comment in a termy thread