Fex and Swarmlord SHI

[Magus Magi]

I've often thought that the Carnifex and Swarmlord should have SHI armor instead of vehicle armor (similar to the Avatar and Great Unclean One). Like the Avatar and the Great Unclean one, these units are tier 3 walkers, meaning they neatly avoid many of the more awkward pathing problems associated with vehicles in DoW II. Especially when dealing with a Thornback/Swarmlord combo, that's a great deal of fast moving, melee, vehicle armor and HP to chew through. The thornback especially seems to have terrific survivability.

I'm thinking it might be interesting to lower the price on the swarmlord and the carnifex, but switch their armor type to SHI. Get a little more nidzilla in there, but with less vehicle armor.

I am a little concerned about the effect that would have on ranged carnifexes though...maybe bump their hp up...

How many of you hate this idea?

[crazyman64335]

not really a fan of this idea considering that nids wouldn't have a melee unit with vehicle armor

[Torpid]

Yes, let's make it completely unnecessary to ever need AV vs nids whatsoever and in doing so completely negate the purpose of going t3 as nids. No, comeon... The swarmlord/TB is not something you see often because that's way more expensive than baneblade. Kind of a ridiculous means by which you deduce said units need a nerf. If anything, if such units are too spammable despite the price, clearly there is something amiss in the tyranid eco before that point (pointing the finger at you endless swarm).

[Raffa]

Since they're living creatures it would technically make more sense for them to have SHI armour...

But it would also be a big FU to balance, removing any reason to get AV vs Tyranids. The current system feels right, looks realistic and most importantly works.

As usual, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Magus Magi]

"The swarmlord/TB is not something you see often because that's way more expensive than baneblade."

I totally understand your concern. That said, this ^ is the reason I also suggested a price decrease for the big nids in tier 3.

Also, AV is still useful against units like the Avatar and GUO because of the snare effects that are usually associated with them. Let's be honest here, a melta bomb, melta gun, haywire grenade, lascannon, etc. would still be of great practical use against the fex and swarmlord, regardless of whether they have SHI armor or vehicle armor.

I do understand your concerns.

[Atlas]

My concern has already been noted in earlier posters. Making them SHI feels like the Tyranids become incredibly vulnerable to Power Weapon, Plasma and Psychic weaponry which you might already want to focus down Warriors. Also noted, the Lascannon would still be helpful even with SHI armor. With the exception of immunity to melta bombs/haywire grenades and not being stunned by Eldritch Storm, I can't see much upside for SHI armor over vehicle armor.

As a side note, I actually didn't find anything that did psychic_pvp damage. I figured the Grey Knights would have some psychic damage but it all seemed to be plasma. What weapons/abilities do psychic damage?

[Torpid]

The zoanthrope's default attack as well as the blasta upgrade on the flash gitz.

I was considering in a GK balance thread that I'm contriving suggesting that the strike squad should get a dedicated ranged upgrade that changes their damage type to psychic_pvp from piercing_pvp and is mutually exclusive with their melee upgrade (nemesis focus) and other weapon upgrades. The issue however is that psychic_pvp offers insanely good bonuses vs enemies in cover, so I think it would be pretty broken, instead, as with the dark reapers, inferno_pvp seems the best option.

[Forestradio]

The brother captain's "psychic lash" ability also does, funnily enough, psychic damage.

If the SL/fexes were to have SHI armor, it should be accompanied by a significant increase in health because 1350 SHI armor dies pretty fast to plasma weapons.

[Tex]

I am absolutely not in favor of changing the armor type of the carnifex. If you wanted to change swarmlord to SHI, I wouldn't really care because then it would be the same deal as working against a 6000 hp GUO or w/e.

[ThongSong]

would make plasma tacs and double tzeench marines incredibly powerful against nids imo. have to strongly disagree.

[Magus Magi]

Duly noted all. You've sold me.

Back to the drawing board.