Smoke

[Arbit]

What exactly does it do? I know that generally it reduces damage going into and (sometimes?) out of the cloud, but from what I hear and have seen there are exceptions on the "outgoing" part.

AFAIK the following units have smoke

SM
razorback

IG
Catachans
Spotters

Orks
Kommandos

Eldar
It is primitive technology

Chaos
Smoke is for the weak

Nids
GLGPHAHAGHGH wait does the hive node mist count as smoke?

Does anyone definitively know what smoke does for each of the above units? I've asked people in-game and regularly get different answers.

[Wise Windu]

Spotters reduce range of covered units by 50% and decrease sight range by 50%.

Catachans smoke reduces incoming courage damage to 0 and decrease received damage by 50%.

Razorback smoke reduces ranged damage output by 80%, decreases incoming courage damage by 90%, and reduces incoming damage by 80%.

Kommandos do the same as razorback.

This is right, I think.

[ThongSong]

huh I didn't know razorback smoke reduced outgoing damage. interesting

[Arbit]

Thanks Mr. Windu.

I wish my techmarine could requisition that magic smoke the catachans have...

[Forestradio]

Grey Knight Rhino also has a smoke grenade, although I believe it is identical to the razorback one

[Wise Windu]

Not a problem ^^.

Nids
GLGPHAHAGHGH wait does the hive node mist count as smoke?

And I guess since the hive node mist is called "tyr_buff_aoe_hive_node_smoke":

Emit a protective cloud in radius 25 that lasts 25 seconds. Reduces ranged damage output and received ranged damage by 80% and grants immunity to suppression. Enemy units trapped in the cloud have their speed reduced by 50% and take 5 damage every second.

And yes, GK rhino smoke is the same as razorback's.

[sk4zi]

yeah IG has the best smoke
its super psychic treated smoke which affects only the enemys and is completely invisibile for the imperial eyes.
its the best guardet secret in the universe how a smoke can just affect people OUTSIDE it

the super sophisticated Space marines cant use smoke in the correct way and their helmets have no wipers and they cant look trough it ...

so odd.

[Sub_Zero]

Haha, good point fluff-wise. But in terms of balance it is ok for IG to have such ability. I wouldn't mind some rework of the razorback's smoke shell though.

I am questioning your information about kommando's smoke shell. I took out a tank (Chaos Predator if I recall correctly) with them. They were hided in the smoke cloud.

[Myrdal]

Windu is correct but I don't think the reduced damage output from within the sm/ork smoke cloud affects projectiles such as grenades, missiles(knob, tac, sent, etc), plasma cannon shots, fireballs, etc. Those deal full damage afaik. Unsure about courage damage. Anyway this ability is incredible and with the short cooldown on the rhino you can have your units covered in smoke 1/3 of the time making it quite ridiculous.

[Wise Windu]

I believe the courage damage is correct.

As for the projectile weapons (rocket, plasma cannon, etc.), I image that, since they detonate outside of the smoke, they deal full damage. Regular ranged burst weapons don't have a separate projectile.

[Myrdal]

What I meant was I'm not sure if courage damage dealt by say a heavy bolter squad is also reduced if firing from within the smoke cover. It probably is though.

[Wise Windu]

Oh, sorry. It's received courage damage only, not outgoing, so a suppression team's suppression effects won't be affected.

[Dark Riku]

but I don't think the reduced damage output from within the sm/ork smoke cloud affects projectiles such as grenades, missiles(knob, tac, sent, etc), plasma cannon shots, fireballs, etc. Those deal full damage afaik.

No they don't deal full damage.
They are all ranged attacks and are affected by the smoke.

[Arbit]

I just ran a few tests, performed with the latest beta modified by lulgrims's lab mod.

TEST ONE - PDVS
Two tac squads volunteered to be fired upon by a friendly pdev - one while the pdev was smoked, and one while not.

Unsmoked pdev - reduced tac + sarge squad to 680 HP from 1450 HP
Smoked pdev - reduced tac + sarge squad to 760 HP from 1450 HP

Damage variance is probably due to uncentered pdev shot. Outgoing damage NOT reduced.

TEST TWO - HBDEVS
Easy Computer Player #1 volunteered to sit in his base and do nothing. Base turrets were removed. A HB Dev and razorback performed the shooting and smoking, respectively.

The HB Dev still suppressed the greenskins while the HB Dev was in the smoke cloud. Not exactly intuitive, but hilarious to think of the HB Dev firing blindly and suppressing stuff anyway.

TEST THREE - ML TACS
Expert Computer Player #1 was subbed in for Easy Computer Player #1 because EasyCP#1 refused to move out of his base. ExpertCP#1 managed to cap a power node and build a gen farm. ML tacs + razor did their thing.

After one missile and a burst of bolter fire from the accompanying two marines, the generator stood at 361 HP down from 600. While smoked, one missile + bolter fire reduced a generator to 395 HP from 600. Smoke did not affect outgoing damage on missile shots but affected the bolter fire.

TLDR Razorback smoke does not reduce outgoing damage from projectiles such as tac missiles and pdev shots, and does not reduce outgoing supression

[Myrdal]

Was hoping someone would set this straight. Well done sir

[Nuclear Arbitor]

did you do a control test and get the expected results of decreased damage from standard weapons?

[Arbit]

OK I did a little more testing because Nuclear Arbitor won't let me take anything for granted.

- Outgoing standard weapon damage is definitely decreased. This includes flamers. Tried it out on a node.
- Smoke decreases incoming damage from frag grenades and pdevs (i.e. scouts/pdevs are outside of cloud, throw/shoot stuff at a tac squad within the cloud, tac squad takes very little damage)
- Frag grenades thrown from within the cloud do full damage if they detonate outside of it (same principle in action as missiles and pdev shots that leave the cloud I guess)

[ThongSong]

I think smoke clouds also heavily reduce manticore damage. I was in a game where, iirc, tex launched a full manticore barrage at a devastator team that had smoke popped on it. the devs received about 2/4 missiles but only lost 1/4 of their hp.

[Tex]

Yes, I remember that. That was when catachan smoke used to be crazy OP (90% reduced incoming damage, 20% reduced outgoing). Now I am pretty sure cata smoke is a balanced 50/50 no?

[Torpid]

Catachans smoke reduces incoming courage damage to 0 and decrease received damage by 50%. Doesn't affect outgoing damage at all.

[Arbit]

I think smoke clouds also heavily reduce manticore damage. I was in a game where, iirc, tex launched a full manticore barrage at a devastator team that had smoke popped on it. the devs received about 2/4 missiles but only lost 1/4 of their hp.

I was going to say it's safe to assume that any damage that isn't melee would be reduced, but I was testing yet again and smoke does not reduce orbital bombardment damage. Perhaps globals are an exemption to "ranged" damage, so I would assume that smoke would not reduce damage from plague cloud, hellfury strike, etc as well.

Also, it reduces damage from the terminator heavy flamer ability. *shrug*

[Lulgrim]

Globals are not weapons...

Revision: Rocket Run might have a weapon.

[Tex]

Catachans smoke reduces incoming courage damage to 0 and decrease received damage by 50%. Doesn't affect outgoing damage at all.

Wow... seriously? That's unreal.

That opens up an entire new can of exploitable goodies for me to try out...

[ThongSong]

wasn't there a reply where a chaos sorc used his daemon shield to help his guys tank a rocket run? or was than apo with advanced healing... I forget...

[Dark Riku]

Wow... seriously? That's unreal.

That opens up an entire new can of exploitable goodies for me to try out...

Tex C'mon :p It's been like that since forever now :p