IED and Mines having too much HP

[hastaga]

Discuss

Personally I think 2 shots from bolters should be able to kill any of those things -_- If the hidden explosives have been spotted, I see no reason to take so long destroying them.

[FiSH]

i think their HP is ok, what's happening is more that their size is small so small arms don't hit them well. snipers/AOE shots seem to take them out pretty easily.

i say "i think" because i wanted to confirm the facts on wikia, but couldn't find the info i wanted.

[Vapor]

I disagree. Detectors already counter mines hard, no need to make it even worse. Doesn't take too long to destroy them anyway.

Also if you know where the mine is, you can just walk around it...

If catachan mines need a nerf I'd rather see the damage decreased so that not having a detector around doesn't lead to instant squad wipes.

[Wise Windu]

i think their HP is ok, what's happening is more that their size is small so small arms don't hit them well. snipers/AOE shots seem to take them out pretty easily.

i say "i think" because i wanted to confirm the facts on wikia, but couldn't find the info i wanted.

Yeah, they're size is "tiny". Most starting range weapons (bolter_pvp weapons like tacs, guardians, etc. have) have 30% accuracy against them. And yes, snipers have 100% accuracy against them.

http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weaponf ... bolter_pvp

http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weaponf ... fam=sniper

[Torpid]

What FV said.

[Sub_Zero]

Catachans' explosives do not work like other mines. They are better 10 times. When I play and use mines I always spit on the current detection system. When I play and use catachans' explosives I hurt and wipe a ton of stuff. That is how mines should work.

[FiSH]

Catachans' explosives do not work like other mines. They are better 10 times.

I wouldn't use the word "better," they're all different and are good at various things.

techmarine proximity mine: good vehicle slow, synergizes well with vengeance devs
knob booby trap: excellent for anti-garrison
mekboy mine: bad damage, but excellent area denial and vehicle slow
ravener burrow trap: the stats don't shine (other than stun on detonation) but you can use these on garrison exits, around tunnels/hive nodes and stuff, so not bad either. not sure about the cooldown in elite, i know that in retail you could plant multiple mines in one engagement, which was how some players (cough edtjuh cough) dealt with melee.
catachan IED: inferior damage to others, but provides good sight radius
IST mines: i have no clue how to use them. haha

[Dark Riku]

catachan IED: inferior damage to others, but provides good sight radius

You mean superior damage...
Can be detonated at will AND give you map awareness.

[FiSH]

catachan IED: inferior damage to others, but provides good sight radius

You mean superior damage...
Can be detonated at will AND give you map awareness.

my mistake. correction:
superior damage on the very center, inferior damage on the outside. smaller blast radius as well.

[Vapor]

There's also the commissar airdrop which I've had some good times with.

The only mine I haven't found useful is the knob trap, it seems to bug out fairly often and won't place on some terrain. The upgrade is only 20 power though so I won't complain.

[FiSH]

another change to IED that i'd like to see is making it such that teammates can't detonate my IEDs. 2 reasons:

1. if i'm not paying attention to my IEDs, the opponent should not suffer from them.
2. it is very annoying when my teammates use up my IEDs at the wrong/unintended times, which ruins my strategy.

[Sub_Zero]

The information you gave is true however you forget a very important thing. All kinds of mines are hard countered by detectors. They make them completely useless. The catachans' explosives can be activated under any circumstances, they are also very hard to spot. Not hard to spot for a detector but for a player.

[FiSH]

Uhh hard to spot? You just a-move and if you have detector around your units just take it out for you...

[Sub_Zero]

Grr.... How do you think why I say that they are super effective? Because it is so easy to destroy them like you say? I wipe tons of stuff with these explosives. People don't pay attention on it even if they have a detector. Yes, units start to shoot but in a hot engagement they lose their awareness. People do, I mean.

[Dark Riku]

There is no reason why IED's should take this much effort to take down.
There is also no reason for them to give the IG player so much map awareness.
What are they? Communication posts? °_O
The ability knockback is another thing that doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

The things here above just have to change...


The IED's could also be made non-explodable when detected by a detector
to balance them further like their mine cousins.

The extra damage and wiping potential can be there thing I guess.

[Torpid]

Agree with Riku on everything except making IEDs non-explodable when detected.

[Orkfaeller]

Do you dedect IEDs when you stand right on top of them? Like you do with normal cloaked units?

[Asmon]

Every unit detects in radius 5.

[Wurgl]

Would anybody every build catachans again if you nerf IEDs?

The problem isn't that IEDs are necessarily OP, its that detection is still so inconsistently distributed among the races... Ork gets it basically for free, SM only gets it when they start using their scouts as fighting instead of capping units, eldar basically doesnt get it at all.

If anything, I'd say IEDs should get a bit of a timer when detonated along with a warning. that way, they would have the same amount o counterplay as a scout grenade from stealth which I'd find fair.

Mines are totally fine imo.

[Ace of Swords]

If anything, I'd say IEDs should get a bit of a timer when detonated along with a warning.

I like that.

[Orkfaeller]

Something like this?



Giving IED a short delay would also make retreat killing bit less easy;
like with retreat grenades you'd have to time it.

[Torpid]

I like it too. I think IEDs are incredibly cheesy and I don't see why catachans should force detectors at all, that said I don't agree with Riku's original assertion of making IEDs totally useless by simply having a detector nearby to the IEDs, that's too great a nerf.

[Dark Riku]

eldar basically doesnt get it at all.

Dat bias XD

I'd say IEDs should get a bit of a timer when detonated along with a warning.

That would make them completely useless.
Or depending on the timer wouldn't matter at all

I don't agree with Riku's original assertion of making IEDs totally useless by simply having a detector nearby to the IEDs, that's too great a nerf.

But you have no problems with mines being made totally useless by a detector nearby?
Seems like double standards to me :/

[Wurgl]

I'd say IEDs should get a bit of a timer when detonated along with a warning.

That would make them completely useless.
Or depending on the timer wouldn't matter at all

As I wrote, the idea is to make them have as much counterplay as a scout nade from stealth. 0.5 sec timer + dot on the minimap

[Arbit]

But you have no problems with mines being made totally useless by a detector nearby?
Seems like double standards to me :/

I don't like how mines are currently implemented but even I can see that IEDs and are different. Mines autodetonate, the tradeoff being they get deactivated when detected. IEDs don't autoexplode but you can choose to detonate them manually whether they are detected or not. I think IEDs are a lot more powerful/useful right now but there is no issue with having different sets of rules govern each, otherwise I could point out that IEDs have a pop cost but landmines don't OMG BIAS DOUBLESTANDARD BUFF IEDS

Do you have to accuse someone of lying, bias, or double standards in every thread you participate in? You're like the biggest drama queen on the forum which is pretty impressive given almost everyone here is a first rate drama queen

[Dark Riku]

otherwise I could point out that IEDs have a pop cost but landmines don't OMG BIAS DOUBLESTANDARD BUFF IEDS

No, you can't because IED's cost 0 pop.
The drama queen might want to do some minimal research before posting?

Do you have to accuse someone of lying, bias, or double standards in every thread you participate in? You're like the biggest drama queen on the forum which is pretty impressive given almost everyone here is a first rate drama queen

Excuse me for saying my opinion. I'm not accusing anyone of double standards.
It just appeared to me that way on this specific topic.

And no, there is indeed nothing wrong with different mechanics.

[Arbit]

otherwise I could point out that IEDs have a pop cost but landmines don't OMG BIAS DOUBLESTANDARD BUFF IEDS

No, you can't because IED's cost 0 pop.
The drama queen might want to do some minimal research before posting?

Huh, well I don't remember that being changed. Anyway, the point stands that they are landmines and IEDs are different and don't necessarily need to share the same rules.

Do you have to accuse someone of lying, bias, or double standards in every thread you participate in? You're like the biggest drama queen on the forum which is pretty impressive given almost everyone here is a first rate drama queen

Excuse me for saying my opinion. I'm not accusing anyone of double standards.
It just appeared to me that way on this specific topic.

Well let's just say your delivery could use some work, because you're coming off as pretty confrontational in a lot of these threads lately.

[Torpid]

But how dare you accuse Riku of being wrong! Everybody is wholly fallible, but not Dark Riku! Clearly you're just a troll Arbit. Get out. Nobody likes trolls.