Gonna do some wargear stuff... need suggestions.

[Atlas]

While you're working on the Mekboy, could you try out the Suppa Tuff Beam? On paper it sounds pretty good but I've rarely seen it in replays.

[Dark Riku]

It works wonders. Makes Nobs completely unstoppable.

[Tex]

Yeah, supa tuff beam is really good. It is however balanced out by the fact that it has a short duration, decent cooldown, and is quite expensive to purchase.

@Sub_Zero, suppressed units can still retreat instantly so doing anything significant in terms of damage isn't likely to happen. The fact that this wargear largely relies on chasing a unit around or in its retreat path means that suppression or not, as soon as the juice gets turned on, most players will split squads and then retreat the focused one.
So basically, no matter if the squad is suppressed or not, he will retreat it and the armor will do not much.
Now, in terms of larger engagements, AWD would definitely help so that it ensures I pin a target and force it to sustain big damage or retreat. However, also needing consideration, is that in larger engagements, a mek jumping into an army blob is gonna get focused down or disrupted very quickly.

Anyway, I tried out the retreat kill mechanic a few times and I think it is safe to say that 30% is a bit too much of speed reduction. I obviously don't think it was fair before against things like gaunts and heretics, but I would be totally comfortable if the speed reduction was something less drastic, somewhere around 15-20%.

[Dark Riku]

Forcing a unit(s) to retreat is kinda a big deal though.

[Tex]

I guess so... but most times that unit is a single tic, gaunt, or gm squad. Anyway like I said, I'm not done testing this out yet.

Also, while I have you here riku, do you have anything you want to add to the list?

[Dark Riku]

No. Nothing that I am willing to add here.

[Tex]

I've been combining AWD with electric armor just like it was suggested, and I must admit that it is certainly effective, however, it does still largely play out exactly as I previously stated, that being, that whether the targeted squad is suppressed or not, they will most often retreat before any major damage is done, leaving the mek with little or no energy to do much else.

I'm really on the fence with this gear right now... more testing!

[Sub_Zero]

I think it is great when some units retreat just to prevent any damage. That gives you an advantage for a moment, well, I don't even feel like I need to explain that. I am pretty sure that you understand that. And you spend 35 (correct?) energy for the teleport and just a bit to activate the ability and keep it active until units retreat. Not sure if someone said that before but I find tons of uses for the wargear. Its offensive role starts when you jump into the fray and activate it. You force movement, do some damage, that is already a huge bonus for your army. Its defensive role starts when you shoot enemies along side your shoota boyz and melee units attack you. Its specific role starts when you teleport to a setup team to tie it up and a melee unit counter initiates your action and gets roasted. You can damage retreating units as well. With this thing you can influence significantly on melee fights between high model count units. Overall I think it is a good wargear. Whenever I use it I like the results. However the wargear requires a lot of energy. Hence you can't use the other abilities as often as you would like to. Can't teleport around as often as you used to.

[Tex]

Just to clarify...

-The only units that will retreat from this wargear are squishy ones.
-The only units that you can effectively counter-initiate against are banshees, sluggas, stormboyz, hormagants, and heretics.
-Teleporting into a setup team is something the mek does anyway, a bit of electricity will not make them lose models and you will simply get focused down while you waste your energy (and resources) instead of just tying up the setup team and then teleporting out after.

So with that in mind, the absolutely best use for this wargear is to use AWD, pin down your opponents highest value squad available, and force them to retreat. Taking this into a logical extension, it seems that using this wargear to force off an AC tic squad or a Banshee squad is its best use.

I will carry this forward into my testing.

[Tex]

Just an update,

Starting filling in some of the blanks on the original post, and now that I will have more time soon, I will link replays to the appropriate sections!

Made some pretty good replays with riku and floid a few minutes ago!

[Forestradio]

Been using Nemesis Vortex a bunch recently.

It needs nerfs. I'm not normally one to call for nerfing GK stuff, but it's a cheese ability right now no matter what way you look at it.

Here's why:

Complete undodgeable counter to T1 compositions that are good vs GK

Let's say your enemy (Chaos player) went double AC tics, CSM into a havoc in T1. You went IST, SS, IST, GKI.

The problem with the vortex is that come T2, those tics are now completely irrelevant because they either have to retreat instantly or suffer horrendous losses. If you land the initial casting of the vortex itself on the squad, it becomes unavoidable without simply running away.

Same thing with double sluggas and a painboy. Come T2, those sluggas can't get anywhere near your stuff.

Current Vortex damage is 80 explosive_pvp

My suggestion: Change the damage type to plasma_pvp to make it less murderous against ALL light infantry but increasing it's effectiveness vs heavy infantry like warriors, KCSM, etc

Plasma damage would also stop the vortex from dealing full damage to vehicles.

The armor is expensive yes (in an already expensive GK t2) but the map control, map presence, and bleed it inflicts are a bit too much.

[Tex]

Hmm, that is strange. I just had a good match vs Riku 2 nights ago and I dodged his vortex quite handily except for on one occasion (with my sluggas). I'm definitely looking forward to using this wargear in the future.

[Warp Dust Addict]

Hmm, that is strange. I just had a good match vs Riku 2 nights ago and I dodged his vortex quite handily except for on one occasion (with my sluggas). I'm definitely looking forward to using this wargear in the future.

Its really fun to use but expensive and its not hard to dodge.If you can dodge a singularity you can dodge vortex no problem
As for the nerfs please give some nerfs to Nids before giving more to GK

[Tex]

Okay! Original post has been updated with some links to some of the testing replays. More links will be added tomorrow!

[Kvek]

Have you tried out the TM's axe yet? Would like to know what you think about it

[Sub_Zero]

I think the axe serves its role pretty nicely. There are some situations in which I would prefer the axe over the plasmagun vs Chaos, SM and other races that have heavy armored units

[Kvek]

I think the axe serve its role pretty nicely. There are some situations in which I would prefer the axe over the plasmagun vs Chaos, SM and other races that have heavy armored units

I think it's pretty good too, but I just feel it's overshadowed a bit, will wait for Tex's response ^^

[Warp Dust Addict]

I would like to see more melee TM play hardly see anyone get it. Axe/Bionics and refractor is very fun to use and is very good vs blobs.I think its overshadowed by Melta/Signum though.
(Also think Sweep CD is rather short something like 20 sec? correct me if I am wrong)

[Nuclear Arbitor]

out of curiosity, and seeing your mention of mek mines: the snare/stun on burrow traps. also interested if anyone else has experience it stunning units in transports before.

[Atlas]

I think I'll try out the TM axe build a bit. I'll get back to people on the newbie's impressions.

[Broodwich]

I've used the axe quite a bit since it came out just for variety and I really like pairing it with bionics for some cheap anti melee. The shield not preventing kb is really the only thing that prevents this build from being used more because he doesn't have much hp.

It makes him good at supporting asm as he can carry the orb and swap to melta if need be. Combining merciless with sweep really puts the hurt on.

[Warp Dust Addict]

I've used the axe quite a bit since it came out just for variety and I really like pairing it with bionics for some cheap anti melee. The shield not preventing kb is really the only thing that prevents this build from being used more because he doesn't have much hp.

It makes him good at supporting asm as he can carry the orb and swap to melta if need be. Combining merciless with sweep really puts the hurt on.

Yea it can be hard to make melee TM work considering hes not as tanky as other melee commanders.
*Also I don't like sundried tomatoes*
P.S Is mantle of hate still around?I don't think I have ever seen it...

[Tex]

Adding TM axe to the list.

Can somebody please get me the cooldown on powerful sweep? It may indeed be over-performing at 20 seconds.

As far as using the axe, I regretfully have to admit that I have never used it, and further, have never lost a game to it as far as I can recall. I will put about 10-15 games of research into it simply because I have so little experience with it.

[Broodwich]

Yeah the sweep is definitely super low cooldown as well as energy cost, so you can usually still use shield to get into melee then pop that off without too much trouble

Bacon is extra

[Warp Dust Addict]

Adding TM axe to the list.

Can somebody please get me the cooldown on powerful sweep? It may indeed be over-performing at 20 seconds.

As far as using the axe, I regretfully have to admit that I have never used it, and further, have never lost a game to it as far as I can recall. I will put about 10-15 games of research into it simply because I have so little experience with it.

Its 20 seconds.And it costs 25 eng ( I think)
There used to be someone (Cant remember name) who used to main TM Melee and do very well.Most people don't use it as Signum Armor gives damage/range and Mark Target while Bionics only gives sweep.Also from what I remember Axe gives a very decent charge and a melee bonus

[Torpid]

Well when something has to compete with artificer and signum, especially signum one would expect it to be very strong. I think bionics is alright now. It does bully chaos a fair bit, but heretics are bullied by a lot of things, such as the warlock's destructor and hellfury strikes.

[Warp Dust Addict]

Well when something has to compete with artificer and signum, especially signum one would expect it to be very strong. I think bionics is alright now. It does bully chaos a fair bit, but heretics are bullied by a lot of things, such as the warlock's destructor and hellfury strikes.

Everything bullies those heretics lol.And yea not saying TM melee is UP or anything just saying its underused as Melta/Signum/Orbs is far easier to use and doesn't have much risk.
Also Is mantle of hate still around?I suppose I can just check when I get home.

[Torpid]

Yeah it is still around, but it got some changes from retail to make it not quite so cheesy vs subcommanders/heroes:

Drain Life duration reduced from 6 to 3 seconds
Drain Life damage increased from 10 to 20 dps (total damage remains 60 as duration is reduced)
Drain Life heal increased from 20 to 50 hp/s (total heal increased from 120 to 150 as duration is reduced).

[Warp Dust Addict]

hm ill have to try it out

[Arbit]

I'm not a big fan of the axe. It's mediocre dps for T2 and he's vulnerable to knockback. You eventually have to buy him a gun anyway since he gets outclassed in T3, and frankly he struggles against a lot of upgraded T1/T2 melee without scout and ASM support. His window to shine in melee is pretty dang small... I'd rather just buy him the MCB/plasma in T1/T2 and not even bother.

Bionics is great. I think you get roughly 2/3rds to health regen of artificers for 2/3rds the price, plus sweep is a great, immensely spammable ability (such low cooldown and energy cost), AND he can punch 10% harder. Sweep also does full damage on retreat so with a little positioning you can pick off models or even finish off squads. Hell, you can even use sweep while he's knocked flat on his ass to help him escape... I pretty much don't ever buy artificer's these days.