The Deff Dread and Zoanthropes - Are They OP

[PhatE]

Yes it was rhetorical.

Sorry if that's the way it seemed what I meant was to not leave any race out of the picture the TG would be the closest thing to a walker in T2 for Tyranids which it's pretty close to but is kind of a hybrid between a tank and a walker.

I do have one for the zoan but I wanted to get out the deff dread stuff out first before it was bed time. You know us here down under with the horrible time zone for DOW, coloured monopoly money and shrimps on the barbie.

I'd say keep it where it is. If anything were to happen to it maybe a snare duration decrease since the synergy between towers, venom brood and the zoan is pretty awesome. But that combo lends more towards the build time of towers to be need an increase rather than the zoan needing anything done to it. A bit reserved on this unit as to whether something substantial has to be done to it if anything at all.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

a t2 entity that has to lvl up to lvl 3 to equal a free right of the bat regen. OP

I'm afraid you understimate the power of a leveling hp regeneration aura in conjuction with the current Tyrannid Eco/Synapse system.

And the comparison with the Nurgle Workshipp it's pointless.

[Arbit]

Another fun fact about the banewolf - it has as much HP as a T3 tank (700 HP), and yet is available in T2. Granted, its weapon loadout is different, but that's still a lot of HP for a very mobile vehicle. For reference, a razorback has less HP after its armor upgrade (600 HP) and costs 90 power total (60 + 30 for the upgrade).

[Bahamut]

I'm afraid you understimate the power of a leveling hp regeneration aura in conjuction with the current Tyrannid Eco/Synapse system.

And the comparison with the Nurgle Workshipp it's pointless.

And just because it does make an impact means it's OP?, saying it needs a nerf just because is even more pointless than comparing both regens

Another fun fact about the banewolf - it has as much HP as a T3 tank (700 HP), and yet is available in T2. Granted, its weapon loadout is different, but that's still a lot of HP for a very mobile vehicle. For reference, a razorback has less HP after its armor upgrade (600 HP) and costs 90 power total (60 + 30 for the upgrade).

well to be fair, that flamer from the banewolf can be even scarier than a predator autocannon, depending on the situation, but that freaking 40% is just too damn good

[Helios]

(is there a useful acronym for that? I'm tired of saying it).

That many acronyms are probably gonna give some one cancer... Ca't imagine why you want to put more in. And zoans ARE annoying mostly due to the speed of their projectile. It's nearly instantaneous. Unlike vehicular artillery they can retreat, and unlike other infantry artillery like Plasma devs and D-cannons, they don't have to set up (or tear down when retreating)

[KanKrusha]

For Deffdred

Time to genbash = timetobuild + timetoupgrade + movementtime(incl rampage)

Cost to genbash (incl a time factor which is power cost) = costtobuild + costtoupgrade

Therefore, to delay genbash rather than looking at build time and cost of the deffdred we could look at upgrade time, we could shift rampage to the upgrade or we could increase the power cost of the upgrade

Just saying, cause I like the build time and cost of the vanilla deffdred (personal opinion)

[Tex]

Banewolf costing less red than kommandos makes me want to cry. 175 is more than generous. I can get a banewolf the second I hit t2 in almost every game that I play as Inq now.

[sk4zi]

IG is just OP theese days ...

and you cant calculate the cost of gens in the defdreads Problem. Gens are bought anyway and they cant fight

[ThongSong]

^ we should put machine guns on power nodes like Dawn of War 1 strategic points listening posts, or whatever they were called

[Torpid]

Do you really not see why that is completely ridiculous? Even from a 3v3 perspective that's insane, but in 1v1 that's just completely up the wall, round the streets, through the ceiling and out the basement mental.

[Sub_Zero]

Who are you referring to?

About IG being OP or about the idea to turrets near genfarms?

[Torpid]

Isn't it obvious here? Listening posts on power nodes?

[ThongSong]

I was joking. I'm sorry.

[Torpid]

Oh, I'de hoped so, but honestly with the amount of stupid ideas with no basis whatsoever, such as a libby costing 240/40 (different thread) out the gate, it's very hard to tell when people are serious or not.

[sk4zi]

just post your opion there.
the libby would not be like hes now then.
just torpid to point my idea as stupid without telling whats wrong with it.

[Torpid]

I didn't feel the need to. A libby like that barely costs more than the VA, in fact less req wise, but more power wise, yet the VA is essentially what Jesus of Nazareth is to Christemdom, to the GK.

[sk4zi]

I didn't feel the need to. A libby like that barely costs more than the VA, in fact less req wise, but more power wise, yet the VA is essentially what Jesus of Nazareth is to Christemdom, to the GK.

so suggest more req cost (300 for example)
the VA does AV damage has infil and long range.
the libby does much less for an army than the VA

[Torpid]

I already gave my suggestions in such a thread as an intermediate approach between the two approach of buff buff buff and no, hands off, let's be conservative. They were largely ignored as the conservatives hidden in their shell and the buffers continued to request buff buff buffs.

I don't think the libby needs such a huge buff at all, he's viable already, just slightly too expensive.



Regardless, anybody got anything else to say on the DD/zoans?

[sk4zi]

i dont want go too much off topic here but i really didnt suggest any buff. it all remains the same with the only difference that hes cheaper with less skill at the start

[Raffa]

Zoanthropes I'm on the fence on. Basically, the meta makes the zoanthrope a very desirable unit as people are shifting slowly, steadily away from getting jump troops and snipers in exchange for "basic" troops and suppression teams. Also it's biggest strength comes from how most people blob too hard (specifically ranged blobs), and the Zoanthrope shifts this in favour of the Tyranids because it counters enemy blobs and makes Tyranid ones tougher. Basically, the meta makes the zoanthrope a very desirable unit as people are shifting slowly, steadily away from getting jump troops and snipers.

Deff Dread needs to go up to same build time as Bloodcrusher, basically for the reasons given in OP.

[appiah4]

A bad unit for a cheaper price is still a poor deal. Librarian has his own discussion though..

[Tex]

After an extensive chapter on Nid balance (which I did in the past) as well as continual play with the HT, I can say without a doubt that zoanthropes are WAY TOO GOOD. I mean yes, they cost the same as a weirdboy.... FINE! But once the second zoanthrope comes out, the game comes to a critical point where your opponent MUST KILL AT LEAST ONE ZOAN OR ELSE HE WILL LOSE! If you manage to get 3 zoanthropes out (which I routinely do), you just should not lose the game. The snare is batshit crazy, the regen is immensely powerful, and worse yet, now with 3 (sometimes 4) zoans, sniping commanders at any amount of hp is a possibility.

Don't believe me?

PM me and try your hand against my HT.

@Deffdread

I'm sort of with toilalee on this one. Ork repair is super shitty, and the deffdread is not a walker that can transition. It has a small window of time to be used at maximum efficiency, and after that, it is doomed. Increasing the power cost of burnas and bits by 10 seems reasonable though.

[Bahamut]

i would totally agree with the damage of FWB going from 100 to 50.

[Floid]

Zoan FWB is not the best snare guys. Can't snare avatars, guos or carnifexes AND vehicles with units inside. And if the target is between units, the FWB will miss the shot, because it will impact in another model, so don't let your dreads or tanks alone and you will avoid the FWB snare, and im not talking about the bug when the FWB just waste zoans energy and there is no shot . Also FWB has minimun range, like doom cataclism. Zoan regen is only effective if zoan is lvl 3 or 4 or if it is lvl 1 or 2 and near one broodnest.

Have fun.

[Dark Riku]

I agree on the Zoa snare being rather buggy and unless that gets fixed first it is hard to balance things out. But the healing aura is amazing even from lvl 1 Floid ^^

[Ace of Swords]

Does the zoan healing aura and the shield wall ability of the TG still stack? Because that was dumb as fuck, like 100hp tg to full HP in 10 seconds.

[Bahamut]

Does the zoan healing aura and the shield wall ability of the TG still stack? Because that was dumb as fuck, like 100hp tg to full HP in 10 seconds.

it doesnt, never has AFAIK