Grey Knight Heroes

[Alexwellace]

I totally agree with a bodyguard toting inquisitor as one of the commanders, acting like a mix of all 3 imperial heroes with good buff ad debuffs, fairly capable in melee wit a bodyguard.

For the other hero I would be against an assassin, doesn't seem in character. What I would go with is a Libraian, we have a model that doesn't need much adding to, we have armour and weapons for him available from the destroyer mod and we even have a model for when upgrades into 'termies armour', that would leave an open spot in the GK's tier 2 for another assassin these people are craving.

[BaptismByLoli]

Assassins as Retinue? Just, no. :l

Imperial Assassins are like super human, out there on their own, one man killing machines.
Not Sidekick / Bodyguard material.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Officio_Assassinorum

Maybe Deathcult Assassins, but those aren't "real" Assassins by imperial definition.

Edit: saying that, Death Cult Assassins, propably pretty easy to do a model for based on banshees.

Ah, I see... the only problem I can find with having a GK hero with retinue is how to make him unique and have feel different compared to the LG.. Maybe a Deathcult or maybe someone else as a retinue member/upgrade ur choice in the end =p

[Orkfaeller]

Well, in the background Inquisitors have a really colourfull punch of sidekicks.

[BaptismByLoli]

Well, in the background Inquisitors have a really colourfull punch of sidekicks.

Now all thats left is the reskinning of models and adding of new abilities... and thats gonna take a lot of work or time I should think

[The Custodian]

Yeah. Its not hard to make it look quite different to the LG.

Death cult assassins, Acolytes, Pariahs, Psykers, Deamonhosts... Heck, toss in Jokaero.

How possible would it be to maybe make the Inquisitor able to join and leave units like you could in DoW 1 with some characters? That would be an option to fluff him up a bit. (now idea if this is possible but its an idea.

As for the other hero a Brotherhood Champion would be sweet. Go the full duelist route on him with different stances conferring bonuses and penalties.

[Caeltos]

Well, I wasn't originally planning on Acolytes being a part of a retinue, since I want to try to give him a more unique-asset playstyle that is based on his army composition, rather than his independance with a retinue following him, however- that isn't to say I'd like to try different approaches. Having both variants available for testing to see what's the best would be the most appropiate, altho more work probably.

Acolytes would be an "valueable" call-in unit that is available straight off the bat. It has no red dump, and more or less adds in another element of play towards the matchup in general in how you compose your army, and how you approach things in conjunction with one another.

Keep in mind, this is some pre-alpha WIP stuff, and I'm using them more of an "idea" placeholder for the direction I'd like to go with them.

Abilities
Clear Vision - Bestows improved vision range and weapon range to all nearby units and allies
Incinerate - Grants the Incinerate ability. Fires a single firebolt towards the target location that burns the ground. Dealing damage-over time.
Holy Ground - Sends the Acolyte into a trance, blessing all Grey Knights in a very large area.

Since the call-in is to be immediate, this translates into timing performance. You'll save ~24 seconds of early-game capping to have immediate pressure potential with 2 squads. However, the off-set is of course, less heavy-hitting potent force such as the Strike Squads, which are delayed if you decide to go with this build.

However, your Stormtrooper + Acolyte will be an incredibly potent conjunction squad alongside with one another. Acolytes are pure ability-wise units, similiar to the Doom of Malan'tai in it's inherit design. Much like how I would like to maintain the Grey Knights to be a very micro-dependant faction that boils down to ability-combinations to ultimately dictate how they perform and how they are played, I feel this is more the approach I'm looking for, since it also fundementally also changes the way you play Grey Knights with their army compositions. Whereas if we just slap in a commander just solo, with a retinue - it gets abit more linear & simplistic in how we approach the playstyles.

In the end, the goal I'd like to achieve is a far more complex Commander that is centered on really how he has all these resources disposable to him - that being through globals/pressure/economical stability and crowd-control that dictates the outcome.

Of course, that isn't to say you can't do that with a retinue. But I feel like you could really highlight the commander/faction more via- unit that is unique to the commander rather than packing it into him as a retinue.

[Atlas]

OK so answering my own question; no it was thought of as a separate unit in mind.

Well, red-less callins would be a first I think, unless I'm missing one somewhere. But a pure spellcaster sounds interesting. Dunno details but will hear more.

[Toilailee]

How about giving them a Bloodthirster hero along with some lesser daemon units? Iirc in Daemonhunters codex in TT they were allowed to field such units with slightly different stats, think the fluff behind it was experinmenting on daemons and transferring human blood into them to make them "good" or something like that.

[Forestradio]

HERESY

Power_of_the_Imperium_-_Exterminatus.jpg

[Cheah18]

Well, I wouldnt opose giving GK more Assassin Subcommanders, but only allowing you to have one at the time.

I know we're on heroes and don't want to get too off topic, but I actually think this is a REALLY good idea. Anyone else? Someone with influence make a new thread?

[Orkfaeller]

Holy Ground - Sends the Acolyte into a trance, blessing all Grey Knights in a very large area.

So I guess they would be heretics - based^^

[Caeltos]

Holy Ground - Sends the Acolyte into a trance, blessing all Grey Knights in a very large area.

So I guess they would be heretics - based^^

Actually, it would be a much larger radius.

[Forestradio]

If Acolytes are going to be spell caster based, then I would make them pretty squishy.

Say a 260 req cost, with 6 models and 80-90 hp per model, infantry fire resist.

Clear Vision and Holy Ground should both be channeled, so you have to decide what set of benefits you want for your army (depends on whether you got a strike squad or a second storm squad with your acolytes).

"Incinerate" DoT would last for ~10 seconds, but also briefly stun the Acolytes themselves after casting it.

autoguns (3.5 piercing dps per model), horrible melee dps.

In t2, you could either upgrade them into a more dedicated caster squad (with improved abilities and/or reduced cooldown on their abilities) or a combat unit (either chainswords and autopistols or perhaps melta guns).

[Orkfaeller]

In t2, you could either upgrade them into a more dedicated caster squad (with improved abilities and/or reduced cooldown on their abilities) or a combat unit (either chainswords and autopistols or perhaps melta guns).

No pistols >:l

Heretics dont have pistol animations. If they are going to be a melee unit, I say either no pistols or a shield.



But maybe you could work in the church's holy trinity of weapons somehow?

Bolter, Flamer, Melta

Maybe tied to these "faith powers".
Like if you upgrade them with flamers they get the suggested "Incinerate" or what ever.

We could do some awesome divine weapons for them.

[ChrisNihilus]

No pistols >:l

Heretics dont have pistol animations. If they are going to be a melee unit, I say either no pistols or a shield.

So, the fact that Heretics don't have the animation when firing is not a bug?
There is no way to solve it?

[Nuclear Arbitor]

make them a new set of animations. this is just a guess but two, stand fire and move fire, would probably be enough.

[Orkfaeller]

No pistols >:l

Heretics dont have pistol animations. If they are going to be a melee unit, I say either no pistols or a shield.

So, the fact that Heretics don't have the animation when firing is not a bug?
There is no way to solve it?

I'm not sure if its a bug or if relic just got "lazy" and didnt do any.

For funsies I dug through the heretics' animation files and it lists stuff like

ub_aim_stand_vert
ub_aim_stand_horiz
ub_aim_run_horiz
ub_aim_crouch_vert
ub_aim_crouch_horiz
fb_aim_run
fb_aim_stand
fb_crouch_aim

fb_fire_stand
ub_fire_run

These sound like fireing animations, but I have not enough understanding to actually read anything out of it.
I dont know if those are unused ones, or just "place holders" for the non-existing ones.

I for one just wished "we" would just remove Heretics range attacks, or gave them atleast some "invisible bullets"; to hide the fact that they are fireing at a 90° angle while aiming at the ground.

[Caeltos]

The odd thing is that they actually had ranged fire animations in Chaos Rising, but it dissapeared in Retribution.

[ChrisNihilus]

Can we copy-paste the firing animation from Chaos Rising?
Or use the one from IG sergeants, which usually have a pistol and a sword?
Maybe burn some incenses and pray the Omnissiah?

I don't know how animations work, but would be nice to solve that little problem if it doesn't require too much effort.
I wish i could help. : (

[Orkfaeller]

Just tried exactly that, extracted all animations from Chaos Rising, and copied them over to ELITE.

No changes.

Well, guess fixing it is going to be a bit more complicated.
I cant see any difference between the CR and Retribution files, I mean, number, name and file sizes are all identical. Doesnt ofcourse mean that there arent any differences.

Maaaybe its with the motiontree of the model? Or the Weapon fireing animtion itself?
Surely not, but thats all I can check from my end.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

open the model in santos's model editor and run through the animations.

[Orkfaeller]

Yeah well, look at that.

Edit: So, they are definatly there, question remains, why were they unused?







also that

[Kwib-Kwib]

Looking forward to the new heroes here as well! A sanctioned psychic might be quote fun, but the other guy is indeed too space-mariney. And the GK already have a tough heavy-hitter, so the other two should stay light-weight. A malleus inquisitor sounds real fun, give him a leather coat and a hat. (no way around that, lol). Or maybe, a sneaker-hero?

Like a hero-vindicare assassin? Who can be shaped into a long-range sniper or a dual-wield barrage gunslinger?

[Kwib-Kwib]

Just read the whole tread.
Must say the idea of a retinue-commander looks much better to me. Not sure, why, lol)
But a call-in unit idea is also not that bad.
Stil, the inquisitor MUST, JUST MUST HAVE A CURSED DAEMON-SWORD IN T3!!! This just sounds SO AWESOME!!! And gives a lot of room to apply both positive and negative effects (some radicalism has never ever led to bad things, right? :3)
My general idea is to actually make three kinds of war-gear for the inquisitor -
1) T1 one cheap weapon, armor, access. set. Cheap and gives some well-rounded abilities, both support and offense, but not very potent. Makes the Inq more tanky and independent himself.
2) T2 Puritan set, which turns the Inq into a very solid support hero - some heals/buffs/debuffs maybe. Makes the Inq more squishy.
3) T3 heretical-radical curse-set. Also makes the character less durable (and/or maybe gives some other debuffs) but in return gives very powerful offensive/croud-control abilities, like doom-bolts/fireballs/distructor analoques, etc.

That should make the inquisitor one of the most versatile characters, capable of adapting to different combat situations.
As for the retinue... If made, should be the Inqs "living accessories" f.e.
T1 Caratay swordsman/swordswoman (sexy banshee-like chick :3 seriously, the game needs more of em! with more human-like female iquisitor animations :3) - makes Hero more melee skilled and gives more power-melee damage, also gives... Maybe a sprint ability? Helps engage/GTFO when nessecary.
T2 Arbites Captain - "Puritan Unit" (maybe inspires?). Makes the inquisitor tankier, goes better with a ranged weapon. And gives a shotgun blast for a control.
T3 Daemonhost - a "radical unit" floating monstrosity (maybe demoralizes allies?) which doesn't do much damage directly, but channels it's cursed warp power to the Inq to give him energy-regen, and some devastating fireballs/ground breaking rocks (librarian with a sword from Chaos Rising) or doom bolts or snare abilities (maybe both a snare and high damage/damage over time effect)

Still, look forwards to him)))

[Damian]

I have a suggestion for the third GK hero. How about a living saint... She (or he, most livng saints depicted are female) can be more of a caster hero. There's also a lot of places to draw abilities and inspiration from, they can be based around abilities from other saints like Saint Sabbat or Saint Celestine, or maybe Saint Anais from DoW soulstorm, she had a sword that was supposed to be able to cast huge fires if i remember correctly

[Indrid]

I think Living Saints are a bit too powerful lore-wise to be a commander being taken out by Hormagaunts in T1. More of a T3 super sub-commander type thing.

[BaptismByLoli]

I have a suggestion for the third GK hero. How about a living saint... She (or he, most livng saints depicted are female) can be more of a caster hero. There's also a lot of places to draw abilities and inspiration from, they can be based around abilities from other saints like Saint Sabbat or Saint Celestine, or maybe Saint Anais from DoW soulstorm, she had a sword that was supposed to be able to cast huge fires if i remember correctly

A) A living saint is like a bloody small army in his/her own rights so as a commander unit.. I don't think they can fulfill that role

B) Living Saints are rare in few in numbers (less than 10) so lore-wise, I think its a bad idea (fluff fanboy)

C) I find the concept of GK working with Living Saints... unpalatable to say the least... unless it's with the Adeptus Sororitas :p

[Orkfaeller]

I would be all over a living saint; but I have to admit they dont really fit GKs all that much, also I wouldnt know whos model and animation to base a saint on.

[Damian]

I agree maybe not a commander, I see how it would kinda mess with the fluff, I'm a fluff fanboy too. Just a clarification though, although most living saints are associated with the sisters of battle not all of them were. Saint Sabbat lived around M35 and the sisters were founded on M36.

I'll have to look around for more ideas.

[sterling]

Had a mess around in Max since the Acolyte idea was mentioned...



Not finished by any means but with retextures I think this could be half-decent given there is no-one currently making brand new models.

Uses the Heretic animations.

What do we think?