Patch 2.3 Balance changelog

[Lichtbringer]

@kisuke:
... he did already state that he isn't nerfing them. He is buffing there defense by a lot (health regeneration) which basically allows them to do more damage because they have more time for it. Search his post for a longer wall of text.


Btw, Scouts have 71 meleeskill o_O EDIT: see next post.

And did you know, that fully upgraded warpspiders do 30% more dps to heavy-infantry in melee than by shooting?

[Wise Windu]

@kisuke:
... he did already state that he isn't nerfing them. He is buffing there defense by a lot (health regeneration) which basically allows them to do more damage because they have more time for it. Search his post for a longer wall of text.

He was quoting someone and missed the end bracket

Btw, Scouts have 71 meleeskill o_O

...no they don't, they have 60.

[Lichtbringer]

@kisuke:
... he did already state that he isn't nerfing them. He is buffing there defense by a lot (health regeneration) which basically allows them to do more damage because they have more time for it. Search his post for a longer wall of text.

He was quoting someone and missed the end bracket

Btw, Scouts have 71 meleeskill o_O

...no they don't, they have 60.

Aww shit, I should have seen the quote at the beginning

As for Scouts: you are right again, good for me, I wish there was an easy way to get all the correct/updated stats.

[fankater]

Some visual upgrades such as GK Librarian helmet, fixed textures for DR and Whirlwind and "medics" for LG retinue are going to be in ?

[Bahamut]

the shotgun wargear adds melee skill. In retail scout had that melee skill by default

Heretics got 75 melee skill

[Forestradio]

OK so the GK dread is finally getting a reliable long ranged weapon

1. Will it retain its ability to upgrade to the multi melta? There's still an unused upgrade slot taken up by "grenade launcher"
2. Will this hurricane bolter come with an ability?
3. Will it do more damage up close?

The only thing that I wish was also in this patch was purgation buffs, since they're still borderline unusable in competitive play, but hopefully the new rhino will help with that when that gets implemented.

[Wise Windu]

As for Scouts: you are right again, good for me, I wish there was an easy way to get all the correct/updated stats.

...click my signature

the shotgun wargear adds melee skill. In retail scout had that melee skill by default

Yeah, I was assuming he meant default.

[appiah4]

Tarantula Turret rework sounds kind of terrible, almost impossible to deal with without vehicles now, and a nightmare for infantry armies..

Also, just read the GK changes. OK, officially the GK Fanboy mod now. Every unit they have is superior to any other similar unit by now.

[Cheekie Monkie]

Tarantula Turret rework sounds kind of terrible, almost impossible to deal with without vehicles now, and a nightmare for infantry armies..

Also, just read the GK changes. OK, officially the GK Fanboy mod now. Every unit they have is superior to any other similar unit by now.

Which part of the GK changes are fanboy, exactly?
Stormtrooper sergeants were nerfed
Stormtrooper plasma is just a change really, since GK now can't keep a single model on their asses permanently like before.
Psybolts are just a shift from a more melee focus to a ranged one and to keep up with tacs and CSM in T2, not become superior to it.
Terminator changes in line with other factions'

[appiah4]

Oh come on, the ST chagnes are effectively a buff. The sergeant went up in price but his utility has doubled, now gives the squad mines for free. The STs also get on demand suppression as if they already didn't have enough DPS to melt any other unit, now they can also not be engaged in melee without terrible bleed.

Not to mention that the GK now have a dreadnought that suppresses by default (Hurricane Bolters). Suppressing Walkers, what an idea.. Watch the GK suppression abuse unfold now.

Psybolts will scale SS much better than any other HI T1 unit does. SS were not irrelevant to Tacs in T2, they had one major up: Melee. Interceptor + SS will always own Tac + ASM just by getting in melee. Tacticals become largely irrelevant in T3 and nobody cares, why are we nursing the SS like babies now? They still do quite fine as they are. Now they not only have great melee for a T1 squad, but also boosted ranged output to rival Tacs? Why? Because the GK ARE THE BEST OF THE BESTEST.

And the Terminator changes will benefit the GK Terminators and Paladins the most, because the more HP you have the more you benefit from regeneration obviously.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Oh come on, the ST chagnes are effectively a buff. The sergeant went up in price but his utility has doubled, now gives the squad mines for free. The STs also get on demand suppression as if they already didn't have enough DPS to melt any other unit, now they can also not be engaged in melee without terrible bleed.

Psybolts will scale SS much better than any other HI T1 unit does. SS were not irrelevant to Tacs in T2, they had one major up: Melee Interceptor + SS will always own Tac + ASM just by getting in melee. Tacticals become largely irrelevant in T3 and nobody cares, why are we nursing the SS like babies now? They still do quite fine as they are. Now they not only have great melee for a T1 squad, but also boosted ranged output to rival Tacs? Why? Because the GK ARE THE BEST OF THE BESTEST.

And the Terminator changes will benefit the GK Terminators and Paladins the most, because the more HP you have the more you benefit from regeneration obviously.

Better utilities,only dropping Mines =). They use to sprint and infiltrate.. 25 cost for Sgt is reasonable enough, people will no longer just Spam 3 ST and get cheap Sgt just for the Mass FF in T1 . SS only has Justicar wielding the Pskbolt and other 3 models can upgrade to Psycannons still? i think. Don't dismiss Tac's versatility in T3,their still dam good with Tactical advance and Kraken bolts ,SS has their Energy burst to control Melee unit briefly . They have Sternguards for Adeptness for a change and still Tacs can be paired with VOT/FTE and other comboes against AV . SS with only psycannon does Ridiculous weak dps compared to Purgators against AI . SS can now stand up to CSM much better in ranged-dps output . Honestly did'nt like having NF on them ,their purpose becomes redundant in T3 =D,preferred NF bck on GKI .

Something will be done to the incinerators i think? Ofc their incredibly difficult to peel a model off,however . They still get shredded by Sheer firepower and stuff.

[Orkfaeller]

Not to mention that the GK now have a dreadnought that suppresses by default (Hurricane Bolters). Suppressing Walkers, what an idea..

Awesome; I asume it supresses?

Courage damage sure, suppresses immediately and stuff like that - no. You'll still need more courage damage to make it suppress.

[ThongSong]

I'll miss the old plasma overcharge on the storms because of how abuseable it was on sniping sub commanders. having 2-3 squads pewpew a sub commander and they pretty much can't retreat out of it. almost like the heavy guage death spinner of the WSE.

still, never gona turn down on demand suppression, and I do love my mines

[HandSome SoddiNg]

I'll miss the old plasma overcharge on the storms because of how abuseable it was on sniping sub commanders. having 2-3 squads pewpew a sub commander and they pretty much can't retreat out of it. almost like the heavy guage death spinner of the WSE.

still, never gona turn down on demand suppression, and I do love my mines

they can immediately retreat no =0? But,its fun trolling Singular entities or a model lol.
Free mines from ST now >33. I guess they can use that during situations ,HGDS don't KB every seconds now and then.

[Dark Riku]

Also, just read the GK changes. OK, officially the GK Fanboy mod now. Every unit they have is superior to any other similar unit by now.

Whut? How? °_O
I still don't see any competitive GK play...

Oh come on, the ST chagnes are effectively a buff. The sergeant went up in price but his utility has doubled, now gives the squad mines for free.

....

Not to mention that the GK now have a dreadnought that suppresses by default (Hurricane Bolters). Suppressing Walkers, what an idea.. Watch the GK suppression abuse unfold now

....

The mines don't do damage -.-
The Hurricane Bolters will not supress on their own. (read the fucking thread)

[appiah4]

The Hurricane Bolters WILL suppress (they do Courage damage) but not INSTANTLY. You read the fucking thread first.

[Torpid]

Not even worth a comment. Somebody thinks SS are fine right now.

I will miss dearly my improved speed and improved dps IST with 750hp for the tiny cost of 15 power. Suddenly GK t1 just got a whole lot weaker since triple IST are gonna be bleeding like mad all throughout t1 as well as t2. In compensation their t2 is going to scale a little better. Doubt we'll continue to see many non-SS builds and triple IST as the standard in a lot of 1v1 MUs. Hell, dual SS could become the meta vs IG.

[Forestradio]

Tarantula Turret rework sounds kind of terrible, almost impossible to deal with without vehicles now, and a nightmare for infantry armies..

Also, just read the GK changes. OK, officially the GK Fanboy mod now. Every unit they have is superior to any other similar unit by now.

Which is why every high level player plays GK and everyone abuse them in all the MRT right?

oh wait...................

[Torpid]

The Hurricane Bolters WILL suppress (they do Courage damage) but not INSTANTLY. You read the fucking thread first.

Yeah, just like those damn overpowered suppression bolters on the baneblade or those ridonkulous SM terminators with an AC who go around suppressing armies -_-

[Cheekie Monkie]

I'm not sure whether the forums can handle so much sarcasm in a single thread.

Still though, I'm looking forward to see how much SS plasma and the new hurricane bolters (or even incinerators) stack up.

[Dark Riku]

The Hurricane Bolters WILL suppress (they do Courage damage) but not INSTANTLY. You read the fucking thread first.

It really is sad when people try to, what they think is, debate something they know absolutely nothing about. Keep proving this to us by posting dumb shit like this.

[appiah4]

Shit like Incinerators alone prove you don't need suppression type damage to suppress in DOW2. I will turn from side to side laughing my ass off watching a cast of you spilling your foul mouth's full of obscenities on the first IG match you play when you get suppressed by a unit you can't even hurt in early T2.

[Torpid]

The flamer GK dreadnought already does that and I very often get it vs IG.

*looks around for complaints* Oh complaints, where art thou hiding?

*looks in the balance section* I don't see complaints here!

*looks in the random shit section* I don't see complaints here!

*looks in the website section* I don't see complaints here!

*looks in the general discussion section* I don't see complaints here!

*concludes that the complaints are currently hiding in the releases section but cba to go find them atm*

[appiah4]

Because you have to pay extra for that. And no one pays extra for a weapon that will become less relevant in T3. This one comes tacked on for free at the beginning of T2. And can be upgraded tot he more relevant weapon later on. It's pretty much a dream walker. How abnout giving us SM players the AC Dreadnought first and allowing upgrade to the Furioso pattern later? Come on now?

I thought not.

GK get a free pass on everything. Every fucking thing. They have all the best units/upgrades. This mod is turning into a fanboy GK fapfest.

[Torpid]

Oh God, just do us all a favour and stop commenting on balance.

SM =/= GK. Their ecos are totally different. I would rather have a melta gun on my GK dread by default than an assault cannon, yet I would say the opposite with regards to the SM dread. This is because, put very simply, GK benefit from additional AV sources much more than SM do as GKs AV sources are far less efficient and tend to have both higher sunk costs and/or increased upkeep (in the form of actual upkeep and bleed).

"Because you have to pay extra for that. And no one pays extra for a weapon that will become less relevant in T3."

Right, well that's not true, because like I just said I often get the flamer on the GK dread vs IG and sometimes vs Orks. The claim is also refuted by the very fact that people buy the assault cannon on the SM dreadnought, or the Khorne dread, both of which do great in t2 but come t3 are much less useful due to all the tanks flying across the battlefield. There's such a thing as macro too you know? Maybe I want to upgrade my dread to devastate his infantry because I want to end the game right here, right now in T2 with a huge vehicle push in t2 from a really heavy t1 (which forced him to get lots of infantry that are weak vs my T2 vehicles)?

Everything isn't so clear cut. Most games don't even end up going to T3 (that I play at least and yes, that includes when they're balanced games ).

"GK get a free pass on everything. Every fucking thing. They have all the best units/upgrades. This mod is turning into a fanboy GK fapfest."

Well, statistics clearly show otherwise considering very few high level players deem GK to be viable in any MU or even in team games. I do on the contrary find them viable (when they don't bug out ) in certain MUs, but they're certainly not OP at all, in fact the sheer uselessness of them vs orks or nids makes them rather UP considering they don't have two MUs in which they are as favoured as they are disfavoured in those MUs to make up for such.

Furthermore, your point about them having all the best units/upgrades is rather moot because once again you're not taking into account the ecos of the different races whatsoever. Are IG useless because in a 1v1 scenario their units are absolutely dreadful? No. Is chaos inherently better than anything but GK just because their units achieve near-full potential when alone in a 1v1 scenario? No, only noobs would think so. Is eldar melee completely overpowered because banshees are the "best" melee squad you can buy in t1? No, if their melee is OP it isn't because they are the "best" melee squad you can buy in t1, but rather that they overperform in some way for that given price.

[Forgefather]

+1 to Torpid
i really think that whoever claims GK are OP and that they are getting the best stuff has clearly never played with them

[Bahamut]

GK t3 is better than SM t3 in a general way of seeing it, but almost every SM t1 and t2 squad is better in t3 than their GK counter part. Actually, saying GK is the best race is like saying that nids t2 is bad, or that SM are OP. it's simply wrong

I do believe there's a race that's the most favored by the elite mod in terms of amount of fanboys and unneeded new features, but it's definitely not GK

[Forestradio]

Because you have to pay extra for that. And no one pays extra for a weapon that will become less relevant in T3. This one comes tacked on for free at the beginning of T2. And can be upgraded tot he more relevant weapon later on. It's pretty much a dream walker. How abnout giving us SM players the AC Dreadnought first and allowing upgrade to the Furioso pattern later? Come on now?

I thought not.

GK get a free pass on everything. Every fucking thing. They have all the best units/upgrades. This mod is turning into a fanboy GK fapfest.

You mean the Grey Knight dread will actually have a reliable long ranged weapon to start with right now? OH NO SO OP OMG NURF NURF NURF NURF PLX

[Black Relic]

I dont see Gk having a lowish cost anti melee units like shot gun scouts. Or something that can slow an advance of and army/unit with out sacrificing firepower (nade launchers on IST). Yea they have Strike Squad which i pretty beastly in melee but I cannot consider that anti-melee at all. Everything seems so expensive when i play them. I can hardly get out what i want when i play them. I do consider myself a decent play with them but in higher level games i dome seem do really contribute. I could use like A video on them or something to help teach me lol.

Side note: Same with playing against inquisitor. I seem have a harder time against her late game than any other hero. Any tips?

[HandSome SoddiNg]

I dont see Gk having a lowish cost anti melee units like shot gun scouts. Or something that can slow an advance of and army/unit with out sacrificing firepower (nade launchers on IST). Yea they have Strike Squad which i pretty beastly in melee but I cannot consider that anti-melee at all. Everything seems so expensive when i play them. I can hardly get out what i want when i play them. I do consider myself a decent play with them but in higher level games i dome seem do really contribute. I could use like A video on them or something to help teach me lol.

Side note: Same with playing against inquisitor. I seem have a harder time against her late game than any other hero. Any tips?

Gk reliability on CC in T1 just good old GL ST/Purgations & WATH kiting ,tha'ts pretty much it =0. Scouts fully upgraded are the decisive winners against ST with utilities and all the niceties shit. SS/GKI are quite formidable composition in T1 ,but i find IG more problematic then other races if you're GK . If its 2 Sents build,go COA to counter the annoying stomps and try bait it out

GK learning curves more steep and complex then SM when i first experimented and tested em out. Which somewhat makes them unique in that particular way ,2 SS still not viable build yet. u can Kite her with 2 ST or just Concentrate FF on inq when she closes in for Tieing up ,probably SS and force her off quickly and much easier time . Prepare for Banewulf summon,although VA + Krak-nades are solution enough.