Zoanthrope

[DarkGod]

Now that my lag problem is fixed, I jumped straight into some games. I was in a 2v2, i was LA, teammate was Commie Lord and my opponents were a Warboss and a Mekboy.

Tier 2 comes along and I get a zoanthrope. One ork player has a deff dread out solo. Let's focus warp blast it and have some fun. Send my adrenal gland warriors, adrenal gland hormas with endless swarm and my LA with feeder tendrils to hurt the DD. Blast. Snare. Attack. AND THE COOLDOWN IS LIKE 2 SECONDS LONGER THAN THE SNARE.

While I love the nids, this aspect is really unfair, as I could just snare and snare until I took out the DD, with some pathetic AV. (yes I know heavy melee warriors but this DD had burnas and bits too)

Is this supposed to happen?

[Nuclear Arbitor]

it's been brought up recently. nothing has come of it yet but it has been discussed. wait until next patch and see.

[Torpid]

Yeah zoanthropes are probably the best unit in the entire game alongside tzeentch dreadnoughts, ASM and the weirdboy.

(making bold claims for the shits and giggles, but seriously zoans are OP).

[FiSH]

While the general consensus was that the cooldown is too short, the counter-argument was that it bugs out very often.

[Cheekie Monkie]

Yeah zoanthropes are probably the best unit in the entire game alongside tzeentch dreadnoughts, ASM and the weirdboy.

(making bold claims for the shits and giggles, but seriously zoans are OP).

Heresy!

[Kvek]

While the general consensus was that the cooldown is too short, the counter-argument was that it bugs out very often.

It doesn't do damage vs transports that have units inside, such a counter argument.

[Bahamut]

just to be clear, it snares for 10 seconds and the cooldown is 15 seconds

In comparison, a lascannon (havoc, dev, HWT) snares for 5 seconds every 5 seconds, so as long as the vehicle is in range of the lascannon it's snared

[Torpid]

Which considering it doesn't need to set-up makes it better at snaring than a lascannon. Of course it doesn't do the damage, but similarly it obviously has way more utility vs infantry than a lascannon. Not to mention the health aura. It's just too versatile for its price that's all.

[Fr33man1800]

Yes it offers way to much for its price also lets dont forget that is the only artillery that doesnt do friendly fire so minimal micro is required.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=7237313

[Forestradio]

Focused Warp Blast also can be used to knockdown on a single model, for easy subcommander and hero killing.

[FiSH]

It doesn't do damage vs transports that have units inside, such a counter argument.

Floid kindly pointed this out to me, and I think he's right (as in, I haven't labbed it, but my impression from using FWB is that Floid is correct):
FWB bugs out if there is a unit between the zoan and the target vehicle.

[Torpid]

So can GKI melta bombs deal 400 damage since they bug out so often? Plx.

TYVM.

[Forestradio]

Nah, it totally makes sense that in order to sometimes snare a vehicle, you should have to risk your 640/95 squad being wiped.

[FiSH]

I am in no way trying to say FWB is not over the top. I am simply summarizing what has been said in previous posts.

Alongside FWB bugs, the interceptor nade glitch is quite unfortunate

[Bahamut]

The thrope could use a price increase indeed. but first let's see what happens 2.3 with the changes caeltos announced

about FWB i dunno it could get a damage decrease or it could be set to only target and affects vehicles. maybe that will also fix both FWB and GKI nade hard on for bugging out

[Nurland]

Just a CD increase would make the ability less roflomfg OP imo. The CD is just too short atm. It would still be a strong ability (as it should be as you give away Zoan energy shield strenght) but the chain snare is just retarded tbh.

[PhatE]

Yep

I'd like to see an Increase the cooldown and decrease on the range (edit; before it sounded like a demand rather than a straight contribution. Not having to set up is a massive bonus and with the addition of capillary towers its synergy is pretty darn awesome with venom broods as well as genestealers. Floid has killed me to no end with that combo.

But cost is good and the damage is also acceptable.

[Dark Riku]

While the general consensus was that the cooldown is too short, the counter-argument was that it bugs out very often.

It doesn't do damage vs transports that have units inside, such a counter argument.

It doesn't do damage nor does it snare! So yes, a very good argument.
It just eats the energy of a unit where energy is also part of it's HP pool.

Focused Warp Blast also can be used to knockdown on a single model, for easy subcommander and hero killing.

Not that it tends to miss the targeted model for some reason though.

I'd like to see an Increase the cooldown and decrease on the range

The increase in cooldown should probably happen. The decrease in range probably not. It still is a very fragile unit. Getting very close to do it's job doesn't seem fair either. And let's not overnerf it right away, start with the cooldown, see how that goes.
And preferably after the bugs have been fixed.

[Asmon]

Not that it tends to miss the targeted model for some reason though.

It will miss if the target moves out of range while the firing animation has already started, which often happens since you cast the ability from almost max range in most cases.

And I don't think the bug against transports can be easily fixed, it's known for ages now (same thing with Falcon etc...) yet nothing changed. Not to blame anyone since I guess it's a tough one to break.

[hiveminion]

I agree with Riku. The FWB could have a slight cool down increase. But the Zoan is so incredibly fragile I find it hard to consider OP even now. Usually when I kill a vehicle thanks to a single Zoan chain-snaring and some melee/ranged AV, it's because that vehicle was pushed up too far without support, so the Zoan couldn't be focused down.

[Torpid]

So incredibly fragile. That makes me laugh. I don't even know how it's possible to lose a zoanthrope when it is artillery that doesn't need to set-up and can snare vehicles without setting up and the entire T2 nid army puts out so much damage. You even get two crippling poisons just incase a melee squad flanks you so really you have a HUGE safety net with these things not to mention towers buffing their speed.

Snipers, flesh hook, psychic lash and the flak jacket are the main zoanthrope killers that spring to mind.




Also drop pods.

[Raffa]

Sniper-like attacks are the only way to force a kill on a zoanthrope, anything else is the Tyranid misplaying.

That is why Zoanthropes are so strong in the hands of a proper player - they will screw up, but rarely and often not in circumstances that give you enough of an oppurtunity to kill the zoanthrope.

Revised opinion: Zoanthropes need a cost increase as they slot too comfortably into practically any composition. With tower vision boost 2x zoanthropes become game-winners.

[Dark Riku]

@Torpid. Yes the Zoanthrope is very fragile. Nothing funny about that.
Just because it usually is easy to defend as a Nid player doesn't mean it isn't fragile.

Sniper-like attacks are the only way to force a kill on a zoanthrope, anything else is the Tyranid misplaying.

I disagree... Strongly.

[Torpid]

Yes, well the vindicare assassin is even more fragile. Why he needed a set-up time when he's even more fragile than the zoanthrope is beyond me...

[Atlas]

This is just from watching the streams of Elite but when I see a Zoanthrope die it's usually because of some kind of jump/teleport unit. Take that with a grain of salt though.

[arnath]

For what it's worth, I believe that thrope's snare could do with an energy/cool down increase.

[Torpid]

Yeah it's due to get basically that next patch: a double in the cooldown time from 15seconds to 30seconds.

[Rataxas]

- Zoans should do friendly fire on own units , all arty . from other races doesnt matter which one , IG manticore , SM devs , Chaos Noise , Orcs Stikaz , do friendly fire. That's mean you have to watch out on what you are aiming for while your units are on the field. Nids can easly swarm up with melee and keep firing from zoans.

- Healing aura is some kind of joke overe here , 2 zoans already heal better than HQ , my idea is to take it away or maybe lets make it not stackable.

- Snare / Stun from psionic blast is something realy powerfuel and its for free you dont have to buy any upgrades for zoans for that what they can offer. Lets say melta bomb on ASM cost 50/25 so i dont mind to give such ability but for proper cost.

- You say Zoans are fragile ? Ofc ! but they do not have setup time ! you press X and they run away like " oh fuck time to go ! " with any other setup teams you need that 1-2 sec which means they will die / bleed.

- Zoans got how much HP ? dont realy remamber right now , 250 ? + 100(x3) shield which i assume is bit stronger than normal HP. Devs got around 650 so its pretty much the same.

so lets see stats

______Zoans_______________________________Devs ( SM )
HP_____250_________________________________675
Shield__100(x3 which gives you + 300 hp)_________no
Power___40__________________________________no
Req____400_________________________________400
Fr.Fire___no_________________________________YES
heal.____YES!________________________________no
snare.___YES!________________________________no
Range___60 !________________________________70(only?)
Setup____NO !________________________________YES!?
Fir.Direc.__360'________________________________ 120' (? not sure ?)

Zoans: HP - , Shield + , Power - , Req = , Friendly fire + , heal + snare + range - setup + , fire direction +

Devs : HP + , Shield - , Power + , Req = , Friendly fire - , heal - snare - range + setup - fire direction -

so what we get tis
Zoans : 1 = , 6 + ,3 -
Devs : 1 = , 3 + , 6 -


How to fix it ?

Well my idea / question is how the zoan should be , we all already know ( ofc those which know how to play and probably that is not me ) that nids got huuuuuuuge range fire with all those synaps. So for sure we dont need another synaps to keep that blob.
Also tyranids got tons of AV ( warriors , jeansstealers , fex , tyrant guard , venoms , pretty much every hero ) But lack of snare / stun on vehs so i would let say change that snare in to one way option make it cost 50 power of shield wont need CD at all.
But when we decide to do so , i would change zoans HP on 400 / shield 50. The amount of hitpoints will stay still the same cause 50 x 3 = 150 + 400 = 550 Hitpoints that can be taken.
Why that way ?

Simple , if we dont want to add extra cost for snare , lets make it like " one shot for battle " but than zoans would be vulnerable for any snipers / canons / long range weapons and melee on X pathing. Thats why we need to incrase HP but lower the shield.

We should as well add friendly fire options , what means nids players have to pay attention to what are they aiming for.

Also there are few more economic aspects like upkeep , price req / power , and the last one is that zoans cant be forced to melee , you cant just go in to close combat with them which allows them to keep firing.

[appiah4]

Devs don't cost 400/0, they cost 250/30 IIRC?

[Tex]

artillery comparison

...

plasma dev