Bottom Tier Heroes

[Ace of Swords]

I seriously fail to see how the FC is worse than any other hero.

The pc is indeed worse than the other 2 chaos heroes but still very good, yes it's slow and not tanky so that's a combination of 2 things that really hurts in 1v1, to add to that I think the general nerf to the nurgle worship really hurt badly is staying power esp in 1v1s, I think an HP increase would compensate it well though, it doesn't need anything else.

[Bahamut]

only war gear of the FC i think is shitty is the power sword. the plague sword competes with the plague fist for the pc but fot the FC the bonuses seems just crappy. i guess it's an "internal" issue as people is calling it lately

[Torpid]

The bile spewer competes with the PF and PS perfectly well for the plague champion. That thing is an awesome wargear.

The power sword similarly, it's just a t1 melee weapon, but there's no reason all t2 builds need to be centred around your FC and the pressure you have in t1 from that power sword can be really nice.

[Barrogh]

Sword can be mathup-dependant. I think I can remember it used rather well in mirrors, angainst some chaos builds and the like. My sample base is not enough though.

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

I definitely dont agree on the lc being bottomr 3 heroes. i have been maining him quit a awhile now and find i have tools to deal with any situation available. i feel ht pc bc fs mekboy would be my bottom 5

[Torpid]

Mekboy is super duper OP, as is the FS, but unfortunately there are no good eldars around these days that play on a consistent basis so we don't really get to see real FS shenanigans (Codex and Toil are probably the best and they aren't exactly pure eldar mains; look, I'm saying they're not Lindonin or Pottah). I can show you the mekboy trolol personally though if needed.

I think the same thing applies to all nid heroes. People don't quite realise how OP the RA/LA can be because no super-good player mains those heroes. The HT definitely is the weakest of nid heroes in 1v1, but since he is part of the tyranid race he's still OP lol because their eco is still bonkers and zoans/TGs are still zoans/TGs.

I was ignoring the BC because he's still a WIP.

[David-CZ]

Personally I feel Eldar heroes are really strong especially thanks to their crowd conTROLLing abilities. But because of how demanding it is to play Eldar they don't get to show their full potential very often.

[Tex]

Well, this spun out of control in 4 pages or less...

I think I got what I needed from this.

Looks like most people largely agree with my thinking, except that LC is in a highly contested spot, and that the BC probably belongs on this list as well.

Which brings me to the next logical conclusion I guess... It's time to push the meta!

[Dark Riku]

Looks like most people largely agree with my thinking,

Are you reading the same thread I am? °_O Doesn't look like it.

[Tex]

I guess I did see the word apo 1 or 2 times...

[PhatE]

I feel that it really comes down to play styles as to how each commander performs. However I disagree with the Brother Captain needing to be on this list.

With the right wargear he can be such a menace and his globals used the right way are pretty good too. Even being able to silence globals (at least this has worked on call da boyz), I'd have to wait and see if others are seeing that too but considering there's a supreme lack of BC players that may be a little whiles away. There is only 1 person that mains GK and I'd say people need to give the BC more of a chance before discounting his ability to fight and compliment GK's. Maining a race or hero doesn't mean that they played 10 games with them.

He isn't really an offensive commander per se but he's sort of a hybrid between offensive and support. Of course he has some hard matchups like the warboss and the warlock (probably elder in general) but all heroes and races have that.

[Forestradio]

I feel that it really comes down to play styles as to how each commander performs. However I disagree with the Brother Captain needing to be on this list.

With the right wargear he can be such a menace and his globals used the right way are pretty good too. Even being able to silence globals (at least this has worked on call da boyz), I'd have to wait and see if others are seeing that too but considering there's a supreme lack of BC players that may be a little whiles away. There is only 1 person that mains GK and I'd say people need to give the BC more of a chance before discounting his ability to fight and compliment GK's. Maining a race or hero doesn't mean that they played 10 games with them.

He isn't really an offensive commander per se but he's sort of a hybrid between offensive and support. Of course he has some hard matchups like the warboss and the warlock (probably elder in general) but all heroes and races have that.

I would tend to agree with this. It's a GK problem, not a BC problem, he has incredible tools that work very well. GK t2 is being buffed, their t1 is taking a bit of a nerf to IST, we'll have to see what happens

Example: I play GK vs Torpid's IG, game is over in less than 10 minutes. Then Torpid plays GK vs my IG, which I can honestly say I have never touched in anything other than a troll team game since retail. Game is like 20 mins, and yes I still lose (torpid is better than me, duh) but it was a lot more even than the previous match.

I would say that the only high level GK players I've seen are Fear/Mathis/Torpid/Tex.

[Kvek]

so because he pwnds your main race with his main race in 10 minutes gk should be buffed? and ig want to end as quickly as possible, so having a 20 min game with ig means that you're probably gonna lose:P

[Torpid]

so because he pwnds your main race with his main race in 10 minutes gk should be buffed? and ig want to end as quickly as possible, so having a 20 min game with ig means that you're probably gonna lose:P

This. He only conceding when I had my incinerator paladins out. But the very fact that I bled him more as GK in t1 and the fact that I had got off a gen-bash and he had got off none and that I was in a tech lead due to that and superior map control and my units were higher leveled all meant in reality that the game was over by 10mins.

[Forestradio]

It just struck me as odd that I could do that with a race that I have no time invested in like at all. Like I said, we'll have to wait and see after the next patch

[Torpid]

Well I have a feeling the next patch is gonna shift the meta in that MU tremendously.

[Bahamut]

Don't i incinerator purgators shit in je whole ig t1 just like noise marines?

[Torpid]

No, just like Noise Marines they're awful as they do nothing to counter a HWT nor sentinels, nor the ridiculously tanky IG heroes (well LC is more fast than tanky, but he does huge dps so he makes up for it). Purgs are only useful as a catachan counter, I guess that's the same with NM.

[Bahamut]

But don't they force catachans? since you can't use any other ig squad to counter them and if you don't keep them in check they'll ninja bash your power farm over and over. maybe the inq can control them easily with her stun but both lc and lg should have a hard time surviving long enough in melee with either of those squads if they are supported

in theory noise marines are quite good at shutting down setup teams with a little bit of support or a good flank

[Torpid]

Dual sentinels do a lot to bleed them and any of the IG heroes can easily deal with them 1v1. Spotters deal with a lot of their support, including havocs.

[Tex]

I played Brocap all last night. Did not lose once. Crazyman even got eldar twice against me. Didn't matter.

I personally would not put him in the bottom 3. He is just an absolute menace against ranged units, especially with his regeneration wargear.
I'm also getting some serious work done with his globals. The silence is just stupidly good. Use it at the right time and your purgs don't even get interupted by jump troops. Mind blades is really good too! I have been using it on the BC when he meets up with banshees and its laughable to see those girls go flying.
Forest Radio was right about the libby, his combination of purge and smite is soooooooooooo awesome! Big damage there.
I even used the plasma cannon dreadnaught effectively! (Although this thing needs to get looked at...)

Only things that I struggled to use last night were the nemesis hammer (it pretty much requires the teleporter to work effectively), the rhino in t1, and the psychic flesh hook thingy. Everything else he (and his faction) has is very effective.

I just need to figure out how to consistently play against orks with him.

[Torpid]

Orks and nids are absolutely fundamentally impossible to beat with GK. It's worse than any other MU in the entire game no doubt.

Eldar BTW are disfavourable against GK much like SM IMO, whereas IG/chaos are balanced and Orks/nids are not merely favourable against GK but absolute butchery.

Don't forget to shroud your own libby Tex when using the purge/smite combo. Shroud grants some sort of damage buff (I forget exactly what), you can even add mind blades in as well, I bet you're gonna be sniping loads of squads then. The main problem with the GK libby is his lack of contribution towards AV yet his being another req-heavy T2 GK unit.

[Wise Windu]

Shroud grants some sort of damage buff (I forget exactly what)

http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... _librarian

You won't be able to use all three, unless you use canticle, or Purification from SS or Purifiers. But it is possible, and probably scary as hell.

[Tex]

I didn't spend anything extra on getting shroud. I bought the librarian bare bones so that I my SS could win melee battles with purifiers. I will definitely try the shroud next time though, sounds very powerful.

[Torpid]

Shroud grants some sort of damage buff (I forget exactly what)

http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... _librarian

You won't be able to use all three, unless you use canticle, or Purification from SS or Purifiers. But it is possible, and probably scary as hell.

Or a level 3 libby ^^

[Wise Windu]

Shroud grants some sort of damage buff (I forget exactly what)

http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... _librarian

You won't be able to use all three, unless you use canticle, or Purification from SS or Purifiers. But it is possible, and probably scary as hell.

Or a level 3 libby ^^

And scratch that, because the Codicum Aeternum grants +50 energy. I r smrt

[Torpid]

I knew I was doing that more often than I should have been lol!

[Forestradio]

.
Forest Radio was right about the libby, his combination of purge and smite is soooooooooooo awesome! Big damage there.

Don't forget to cast "Shrouding" on the GK libby himself for the extra 25 percent damage buff.

I even used the plasma cannon dreadnaught effectively! (Although this thing needs to get looked at...)

Can you send me a game with that?

.I just need to figure out how to consistently play against orks with him.

Triple storms, strike squad, purified blades if stormboyz or painboy has been my best build vs them so far.

To be honest, I will maintain that GK t1 only needs love in the form of purgation buffs. IST spam is finally getting toned down, SS will finally scale into t2, and GKI have always been an excellent jump squad.

But purgation? I've had games where they didn't even counter default hormagaunts, and yes I hit the snare perfectly and the gaunts just tanked it until it wore off and jumped all over the purgs, until these guys counter melee they will always be useless, esp since GK have so little crowd control otherwise. Basically, a third IST squad does the job better than purgation.

[Uncle Milty]

Don't forget that the IST tweak also makes rhinos way more interesting. IST don't get that speed buff anymore, so they won't take on map control as easily as before. you also don't get the detector as easily anywhere on the map, so you need to adjust to that prolly with some more rhino play. Since this thing also is meant to get buffed with a gunner i guess it can't hurt to start using it now and find synergies with your other stuff e.g. purgation.

[Ace of Swords]

Nobody belives in double strike squads It's powerful now, when the rhino bolter will come that will need to be the only t1 power investment you'll need and with even better anti-everything ranged damage in t2 they will become godly.