DEM LIFE QUESTIONS: Considering Post Grad in MBA

[Commissar Vocaloid]

As a few who've spoken with me may have picked up from past conversations over the last few weeks, I'm presently just about to graduate from University after a hefty 6 years (5 year Engineering/Business Program + 1 Year Co-op) and I'm at that phase where I'm trying to figure out what to do.

Originally I had opted for going straight into looking for work post graduating in April, but I've recently pondered the thought of getting my MBA straight after. It was an eventual goal in the long run, but the opportunity has presented itself recently and it would definitely be easier to get the thing in the short run than in the long run.

So one of the things I'm first considering to test the waters is possibly writing the GMAT - I was wondering if anyone else has possibly written it before? What are some general areas I should focus/study in the GMAT and what was your experience like if you have written it before (or similar tests).

[BaptismByLoli]

What's a GMAT? Been searching it at google and nothing definitive came up =p... sry for not answering the post but still

[Commissar Vocaloid]

http://www.mba.com/global/the-gmat-exam.aspx

It's a required admission measurable for many universities with post-grad business programs.

From what I've gathered, it's comprehensive of analytical skills and being able to interpret, for example, a lot of graphical data. However, I'm hard pressed to say that it's more than just "interpreting what graph x says about point y". Curious if it has things that come up for accounting, HR, and sort of psych ... i.e, should I bust out the old financial accounting text book and gloss over terms?

[BaptismByLoli]

I'm 5 years away from even starting University, 3 due to Polytechnic and 2 due to conscription but even then, its pretty obvious with the growing population that the world is gonna be one hell of a competitive world and you're gonna need all the advantage you need to get stable job and lead a comfortable lifestyle. It's a no brainer for me to get all the advantages to get into Uni. Cause.. you know.. people like hiring Uni grads. More crap to deal with in Uni sure but when you enter the job industry you have somewhere comfortable to start at. But that's my personal opinion.
When it comes down to it, and this sounds cheesy and cliche, is that you basically need the will and determination which is WAY easier said than done. Cause the accumulated stress and fatigue can take a toll on you and make you just wanna sit down and derp around rather than study. Also, is the GMAT a course or a one time exam paper?

[FiSH]

Disclaimer: All my points are coming from an American perspective.

If you have co-op under your belt as an engineer, you can probably get a job.
Many companies have paid education, and if they see that MBA will be a good fit for you, they will pay for your education. I've seen many students during my time in getting my master's degree who were paid for their MBA - some of them in late 20s, some in early 30s.

That said, you did mention an opportunity manifested itself, and I have no clue as to what that is, so I don't want to say "do this" or "do that." At least, I hope this option helps your decision making somewhat.

EDIT: All my points are coming from an American mechanical engineer perspective.

[Batpimp]

I can tell you from being a business core student that an MBA has mixed results. In the right situation and the right industry it could be very useful. It is not IMO as important as some people make it out to be. Now engineering I imagine that focus and other mathematical functions would carry more weight. This is all anecdotal from my school, advisors, and friends.

[Toilailee]

Keep up the good work.


Still don't get why you ppl can be arsed to put so much effort into the bad joke that is life.

[Torpid]

Education is its own reward. If you can pursue it formally at no significant detriment to your own life welfare then I suggest you do. If you can't then I suggest you study it informally.

That's MO anyway.

[Unconscious]

I recommend alot of education outside of University from additional books, such as Business people who made it by doing their own thing. Richard Branson, Steve Siebold and Robert Kiyosaki. You dont want to end up somewhere doing what you dont enjoy and being somewhere you dont want to be, doing what you dont want to do.

You have the power to make a change, but alot of people dont. The best success is always achieved when, there was no hope in continuing on, but the person just kept laying that brick after brick.

All I seem to see in high profile well paid jobs is people saying *Ive had enough!* They cant wait to get out and usually settle for something less well paid but they have learned who learned who they are and what they love doing. Often this is the things the person loved to do in child hood.

One of the sad things about formal education is, they tell you you are bad at stuff when actually you may be excellent at it, just, their education model sucks!

Another thing, we are taught formal education but not the stuff that matters like financial, investing or basic life education. Personality education, personal development education, Spiritual development, nutrition, and so forth.

It leaves people with a distorted world view thats about fitting into the system. It keeps our economy running for people who are too lazy to pick up their dreams and get on with what they love doing. You fall into the Matrix and the predetermined reality set for you!

I would recommend getting education outside formal education as soon as possible.
To quote Robert Kiyosaki, my Mentor, "Your real education begins when you step outside the door.. "

Alot of people go through formal education to be met with the realization that none of what they have been taught actually makes money unless you get a secure job, which is rarely stable. People shift around so much, you do one thing, then another.

Even if people do end up with all the money, sometimes they were just not happy in the first place, so they are not happy even if they do have the money.

As the saying goes, A students get employed, but they can end up being poor in the long run, or even if they get by, they are just not happy, and are disappointing with the future prospects. C usually run Businesses, and rely more on their skill at a craft, and street savvy knowledge.

Heres a best selling book that should be very helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Students-Work ... 1469218976

[Commissar Vocaloid]

Disclaimer: All my points are coming from an American perspective.

If you have co-op under your belt as an engineer, you can probably get a job.
Many companies have paid education, and if they see that MBA will be a good fit for you, they will pay for your education. I've seen many students during my time in getting my master's degree who were paid for their MBA - some of them in late 20s, some in early 30s.

That said, you did mention an opportunity manifested itself, and I have no clue as to what that is, so I don't want to say "do this" or "do that." At least, I hope this option helps your decision making somewhat.

EDIT: All my points are coming from an American mechanical engineer perspective.

The unfortunate thing is that my coop was more business in manufacturing, which doesn't give me as big a lead as you'd think - not the biggest differentiation when employers are concerned more with your calculations rather than cost reductions optimization. Hence why I'm banking on the opportunity. As I plan on getting an MBA regardless, I'm keen on going for it asap.

I can tell you from being a business core student that an MBA has mixed results. In the right situation and the right industry it could be very useful. It is not IMO as important as some people make it out to be. Now engineering I imagine that focus and other mathematical functions would carry more weight. This is all anecdotal from my school, advisors, and friends.

The problem is that in the long run, I've no intention of staying in pure engineering. I've more interest in career advancement and often engineering can only go so far. Often enginners who want to go up in mgmt will need more training and education in business, and its not all uncommon for them to get an MBA. From how i see it, engineering good for getting your foot in the door, and the business helps me climb up the ladder.

quote="Toilailee"]Keep up the good work.


Still don't get why you ppl can be arsed to put so much effort into the bad joke that is life.[/quote]

Thanks :p. And to answer for myself - Self fulfilment really. And career advancement, but not in regards to monetary gain, but mainly responsibility and leadership are my interests in my eventual career.

Education is its own reward. If you can pursue it formally at no significant detriment to your own life welfare then I suggest you do. If you can't then I suggest you study it informally.

That's MO anyway.

Its really true - and my biggest detriment aside from getting in is paying for postgrad ):

I recommend alot of education outside of University from additional books, such as Business people who made it by doing their own thing. Richard Branson, Steve Siebold and Robert Kiyosaki. You dont want to end up somewhere doing what you dont enjoy and being somewhere you dont want to be, doing what you dont want to do.

You have the power to make a change, but alot of people dont. The best success is always achieved when, there was no hope in continuing on, but the person just kept laying that brick after brick.

All I seem to see in high profile well paid jobs is people saying *Ive had enough!* They cant wait to get out and usually settle for something less well paid but they have learned who learned who they are and what they love doing. Often this is the things the person loved to do in child hood.

One of the sad things about formal education is, they tell you you are bad at stuff when actually you may be excellent at it, just, their education model sucks!

Another thing, we are taught formal education but not the stuff that matters like financial, investing or basic life education. Personality education, personal development education, Spiritual development, nutrition, and so forth.

It leaves people with a distorted world view thats about fitting into the system. It keeps our economy running for people who are too lazy to pick up their dreams and get on with what they love doing. You fall into the Matrix and the predetermined reality set for you!

I would recommend getting education outside formal education as soon as possible.
To quote Robert Kiyosaki, my Mentor, "Your real education begins when you step outside the door.. "

Alot of people go through formal education to be met with the realization that none of what they have been taught actually makes money unless you get a secure job, which is rarely stable. People shift around so much, you do one thing, then another.

Even if people do end up with all the money, sometimes they were just not happy in the first place, so they are not happy even if they do have the money.

As the saying goes, A students get employed, but they can end up being poor in the long run, or even if they get by, they are just not happy, and are disappointing with the future prospects. C usually run Businesses, and rely more on their skill at a craft, and street savvy knowledge.

Heres a best selling book that should be very helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Students-Work ... 1469218976

Moneys never been my goal, I'm looking for leadership in terms of my career advancement, and to eventually move myself from a strictly engineering role in the workplace. My dream in life however is to open a business of my own, but that's something I have as more of a pipe dream more then anything else. I imagine something like that would come to fruitition ifIm fed up with life, as you mentioned ;p

[Unconscious]

So you are looking to run some of Philanthropic engineering enterprise to recreate the world? For what purpose, vision or dream?
With what tools? What kind of leadership?

Architecture, particularly new types of building and houses are destined to start appearing. The designs and blue prints are already in development. Shapes and structures will change.

Why is it a pipe dream? Essentially if you already have fundamental factors in place right now, you should start something now. Especially building up an email list and contacts to share your ideas.

Your aim should be to be making as many of the mistakes now, so that by the time you reach 1-2 years, you save ahead of time.

Pretty much every Business Guru is saying the same thing, you dont have to make it perfect, just need to get it started. Like any Art masterpiece you start with a big brush first, very large, chunky blocks that are then filled in, gradually, over time, and then you refine it with a small detail brush.

More mistakes made and learned = more knowledge. Knowledge = income. You cant buy experience, you must earn it.

I had already got some of this down in the previous website I made but it seemed people were not in the right place to talk about it. Thankfully you are !

Money should not be your goal but how else are you going to sustain yourself?
It is essential to be driven by faith in something larger, and a dream. From your love for that, comes everything else. Passion is the motive, and service. As I will say from 8 years Business experience, doors open up where there were only walls.

All business gives a value proposition in return for income. However I do see room for hybrid enterprises that give more than they take. The Internets economy based on the freemium Business model already have the blue prints for how this would take place offline. It is a very different kind of Business structure.

[BaptismByLoli]

Your aim should be to be making as many of the mistakes now, so that by the time you reach 1-2 years, you save ahead of time. Mistakes made and learned = more knowledge. Knowledge = income. You cant buy experience, you must earn it.

A fool learns from his mistake. A smart man learns from the mistake of others.
Bismark said that I think

[Unconscious]

You cant always learn from the mistakes of others because other people may not be there to steer you.
Even if you learn from others, education is not experience.

Sticking to the topic, the main issue that people have is this:

Formal education teaches you: Make no mistakes, be correct all the time.
The best selling Business books teach you the complete opposite.

Read that again

Formal education teaches you: Make no mistakes, be correct all the time.
The best selling Business books teach you the complete opposite.

Its like Richard Branson has put https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/art ... experience

You can obviously tell Richard has made many mistakes, he has been inexperienced, but he is now very experienced. Are you aware how many Businesses he made that did not work out before he got to Virgin? It is the attitude that matters.

Here we are, many mistakes along the path to success. It is the mindset and mentality.


Source: http://www.rsvlts.com/2013/08/26/how-5- ... fographic/

[BaptismByLoli]

Either way, seeing a person mess up will have an impacton on you and make you think, 'Dang... Don't wanna mess up like him' while messing up can just sap your will. Also, you do know what you are showing now is somewhat the mistakes of someone else right? And to each his own. Some books work while some wont cause people's mindset are always changing with current affairs.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Toilailee]

Soo, what all those ppl who started a business in hopes of getting rich and ended up bankrupt with massive debts?

There are millions more of those ppl than actual millionaires.

[Torpid]

Alexander, you don't engage in aromatherapy do you?

[Wise Windu]

Soo, what all those ppl who started a business in hopes of getting rich and ended up bankrupt with massive debts?

There are millions more of those ppl than actual millionaires.

+1

Attitude can only get you places if you're lucky and you know/meet the right people. Attitude may help you meet the right people and make it more likely that you will succeed, but it is nowhere even close to assured.

Formal education teaches you: Make no mistakes, be correct all the time.
The best selling Business books teach you the complete opposite.

Formal education teaches you how to understand the things you will likely be doing for the rest of your life. Never in the education I've received have I had a professor tell me that I should never make a mistake. They always say to understand what I'm doing, but asking questions is obviously encouraged and in making mistakes, I learn how to do what I am learning better. They understand this, and that is part of what having undergrad level internships is all about. So in a sense, education is experience, and you can also learn from the experience of the people teaching you who have experience with the field you are going into. They are the other people who are

there to steer you.

And if they aren't, you probably didn't seek out their help. And since when was it necessary to have someone else teach you how to avoid other people's mistakes? It is absolutely possible to avoid bad situations by learning lessons from other people's mistakes.

[Commissar Vocaloid]

So you are looking to run some of Philanthropic engineering enterprise to recreate the world? For what purpose, vision or dream?
With what tools? What kind of leadership?

Not at all - I've no visionary dream of changing the world. It's as simple as starting my own company and having the satisfaction that I run my own business. Size or profitability (how far above BEP) are not my objectives, provided I can maintain my own business.

Architecture, particularly new types of building and houses are destined to start appearing. The designs and blue prints are already in development. Shapes and structures will change.

I'm a mechanical engineer, so architecture would be outside of my general field of study - this is more civil engineering. Furthermore, architecture may be used here as a blanket term, but architecture encompasses more of a designer-esque job, not an engineering one (which is more mathematically inclined).

Why is it a pipe dream? Essentially if you already have fundamental factors in place right now, you should start something now. Especially building up an email list and contacts to share your ideas.

Because I've nothing fundamental and nothing I feel would be worth investing my time and money in. It's a dream that’s unattainable for the time being, and until I’ve put more serious thought into it, will probably remain that way.

Your aim should be to be making as many of the mistakes now, so that by the time you reach 1-2 years, you save ahead of time.

Pretty much every Business Guru is saying the same thing, you dont have to make it perfect, just need to get it started. Like any Art masterpiece you start with a big brush first, very large, chunky blocks that are then filled in, gradually, over time, and then you refine it with a small detail brush.

More mistakes made and learned = more knowledge. Knowledge = income. You cant buy experience, you must earn it.

I feel this is very misleading – I only say this because that’s not wise in terms of business sense. There is a sense of risk that goes along with any startup, and by no means will any company every be able to perfect their business models, but generally speaking you don’t want to fill in things as you go. This is extremely poor business sense, in that there are some fundamental things you have to consider before jumping right into starting a business. Why would I go out and run a business by taking out a lot of debt only to find that I can’t pay off my current liabilities with my current assets within a years’ time?

I had already got some of this down in the previous website I made but it seemed people were not in the right place to talk about it. Thankfully you are !

Money should not be your goal but how else are you going to sustain yourself?

Do not mistake me saying ‘money not being my goal,’ as me not wishing to be profitable (enough to sustain myself). My intentions are that money is not the reason why I’d start a business – I would hope that I could support myself and that this dream business would be able to stay afloat, but at the end of the day, if I made a company that was giving me a 7 digit income versus something much more realistic like a regular paying job, it would not make that big of a difference for me. Sure, having more money would always be a plus, but it’s not a must.

[Unconscious]

"I feel this is very misleading...This is extremely poor business sense, in that there are some fundamental things you have to consider before jumping right into starting a business....."

I did not say start a Business. I said something specific that involves zero cost.

Are you saying all these professionals...and a ton more are wrong?
I did say pretty much every Business guru is saying the same thing.
I also said I have 8 years Business experience.

https://www.richdadcoaching.com
Robert Kiyosaki
#1 bestselling personal finance book of-all-time

http://www.alibrown.com/
Ali Browm
Ali has received the honor of being ranked on the Inc. 500 list of fastest growing companies in the nation

http://theleanstartup.com/
Eric Ries
The Lean Startup methodology has been written about in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review,Inc.


http://businessmodelgeneration.com/
Alexander Osterwalder
Invented the Business Model Canvas , co-founded strategyzer.com and lead authored Business Model Generation which sold a million copies in 30 languages.

[Protagonist]

I would recommend joining The Grade Cafe (http://forum.thegradcafe.com/) or some other similar community and seeking advice there. There are some really good gems sitting around if you happen across them.

And here are a few bits of advice based on my experience with GS so far:

1) Know what school you want to go to and what their testing standards are. Some schools will only take your first GMAT score ever. Period. Others will accept your highest or the average of all your attempts at the test.

2) In theme with item 1, try to make sure the program you enter won't be to entirely foreign to you. What I mean is, make sure that you as an engineer are not entering into a program that is so heavily business focused that it assumes you have an economics heavy background or something of that sort. Ie. You want to make sure you choose a program that will be willing to work with your current skill sets to help you grow, not put you at a disadvantage or require a lot of backtracking. Recovering from this mistake is VERY difficult and time consuming(source: experience).

3) Always be thinking of ways to utilize your skills or acquire new ones. While you are planning to go to school for the degree and to better yourself, that is not necessarily why your professors are there. Professors often are more interested in research than the actual teaching, though this view is most common at research institutions. I've found its really beneficial for you and the relationships with your professors to try to find ways to apply your existing skills to your professors research. For example, if you have a civil engineering background, try to come up with ways you could apply something like GIS or AutoCad to something your Business Professors might be interested in like supply chains(might not be the best example as business is outside my background area).


These are general things/bits o' advice based on what I've experienced with Grad School. Hopefully it is helpful. Best of Luck going forward

[Unconscious]

I would not recommend the grad cafe. I cannot see a single Business on that site, the website looks out of date, and it seems very biased toward formal education. This is not a place you want to seek advice. You do not want free advice. Free advice is worth very little.

You only want knowledge from people who are *doing it* and have been through the fire.



Where you go in the next 5 years is dependent hugely on the books you read and who you hang around

The websites I gave you are from real Business owners who offer education/books for payment with lengthy credentials/track records. They offer books, advisers to the whitehouse, pictures with Richard Branson.
Just look at their track records.

In either case, should you ever go about reaching your dream be careful because:

1.Your predicted out-goings are astronomical,
2.From what I can see you haven’t even got any incomings