Slugga boyz nob

[Torpid]

Yeah, well I'm sure there are loads of things that irritate people. I hate how sluggas are green and fat too, but if you're not offering nor wanting to discuss a solution to that which irritates you then why even bring it up?

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Sluggas with burnas can defeat AC heretics. All you have to do is shoot the heretics with your burnas in ranged stance before you engage, then hit Q then melee. If you run in and pull out quickly you also have a big fat chance of dodging most of the doomblast's damage, but you don't even need to do that.

+ 1 Sluggaz rightly one of the best T2 transitional melee squads from T1 out dere,they just massacre through almost anything . Maybe their damage value should be looked upon or the Nob himself

[M4573R_CH13f]

i feel like they should do a lot of damage, what irritates me is that they really do not bleed a lot, in comparison to like kcsm as sub zero pointed out, who in turn are supposed to be low model and tough squads.
maybe the health buff is slightly too high with the burnas buff already on them?

[Tex]

Sure, why not, make the slugga nob 90-25. In my mind I usually compare him closely with the banshee exarch. They both function in very similar terms come T2 except for the AV that the Strength aspect exarch provides.

Both squads depend almost entirely on their respective squad leaders to be relevant in tier 2 and I think that is the reason why both have been allowed to do so much.

Also, lets increase the red cost of swampem by a little bit, and lets also increase the energy cost of FoF. Never made sense to me why it's so easy for eldar units to combo abilities at level 1.

[FiSH]

lets also increase the energy cost of FoF.

FoF is different from Swamp'Em though... Unlike Swamp'Em (flatout makes sluggas perform better), FoF is a trade-off between speed and DPS, and a big trade-off at that as well. I think FoF energy cost is fine.

On topic, I don't care if slugga nob price goes up to 90-25. He never dies anyways, so I can't really care for such a small increase in requisition...

[HandSome SoddiNg]

i feel like they should do a lot of damage, what irritates me is that they really do not bleed a lot, in comparison to like kcsm as sub zero pointed out, who in turn are supposed to be low model and tough squads.
maybe the health buff is slightly too high with the burnas buff already on them?

they can bleed if ork goes 2 Sluggaz build or 2 shootaboyz with Nobz, 27 per reinforce of Sluggaz

[Flash]

If something had to be changed, I would wish the nob to be turned down a tad, and the boyz to be turned up a bit.sluggas feel useless without the non in t2. Also where did this sluggas don't bleed come from?

[Tex]

lets also increase the energy cost of FoF.

FoF is different from Swamp'Em though... Unlike Swamp'Em (flatout makes sluggas perform better), FoF is a trade-off between speed and DPS, and a big trade-off at that as well. I think FoF energy cost is fine.

On topic, I don't care if slugga nob price goes up to 90-25. He never dies anyways, so I can't really care for such a small increase in requisition...

FoF doesn't cost red and it is available way more often. Don't get it twisted Fish, FoF is way better than swampem.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

eh, FoF can easily be a hindrance if you time it wrong. example: using it to get into battle but activating it more than 10 seconds out when you're not going to be receiving a lot of ranged fire once in combat. without the exarch you don't even get the 50% damage reduction.

[Sub_Zero]

I have never had insufficient red to activate the ability. I have never had this ability on cooldown. I have always been able to activate the ability whenever I wanted to. The ability with no drawbacks and can be used all the time, it is not worse than the banshees' ability.

I like the approach of buffing lesser orks and nerfing the bigger ork (I am talking about t2 slugga boyz). Small ones die and the big one declines to do so. I think the appropriate change will be a slight buff to damage to each model and a nerf to damage and health to the leader.

[Tex]

Are you guys so blind to see that banshees get FoF in tier 1? That's a long ass time to be able to use this super flanking and engagement picking ability.

I'm not denying that swampem is a great ability. Just understand that fundamentally FoF is better. That's all I'm asking at this point.

[FiSH]

Just understand that fundamentally FoF is better. That's all I'm asking at this point.

So you're no longer pushing for FoF energy cost increase then?
I'm nitpicking here, but "fundamentally" is a bad choice of word IMO. There are many things to consider, and the comparison between FoF and Swamp'Em is not so clear-cut to say one is better than other. (Notice how on my previous post, I didn't say one is better than other, just used the word "different")

FoF advantages over Swamp'Em
T1 ability
Bigger speed boost
Slightly more ranged damage reduction. (not a significant factor)
Does not use red (not a big deal. Swamp'Em red cost is not high)

FoF disadvantages over Swamp'Em
Is on a squad that is more expensive.
Exarch dies much more often than Slugga nob
Fleeting with Exarch costs 45 power
Reduced damage output

I don't want to go into army composition and whatnot, because I believe above alone can show why "fundamentally" is a bad choice of diction. Nonetheless, I do agree that FoF is better than Swamp'Em in terms of its impact on the overall course of how the game unfolds.

That said, I still don't think FoF energy cost is problematic. If anything, it's warshout - 10 energy - that needs to be looked at. I believe that those two abilities should be able to be used together from lvl1, but with difficulty against mana-steal or mana-burn wargears.

[Torpid]

Excellent post Fish. Fundamentally was indeed a very poor choice of words. I was going to commentate on the rosters, the weirdboy and the painboy, but you covered it all anyway.

Also, war-shout being 10 energy is not something that I ever even noticed before. That's pretty absurd looking at it now, I always thought it was 50 for some reason.

[BaptismByLoli]

And here I am just remembering that Warshout even requires Energy ^^

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Arbit]

The big difference between fleet of foot and swamp'em is banshees get +3 to speed and a 40% reduction in melee output, whereas swamp'em gets a +1 to speed and no melee penalty. It's hard to argue that FoF isn't better for getting into combat but swamp'em is definitely better once you're in combat.

FiSH, if you're tallying up advantages vs disadvantages you might want to add that the cooldown on FoF is 35 sec vs 80 for swamp'em and bashees get a bigger speed boost on a unit that is innately faster (5.5 banshees or 6 with exarch vs 5 for sluggas).

without the exarch you don't even get the 50% damage reduction.

Without the nob using swamp'em isn't even an option so I think banshees win there.

IME the nob dies plenty often unless you are willing to let the whole squad sit around in base while he heals, you have a painboy, or you have the mek battery pak.

[Tex]

Ah, you beat me too it arbit.

[Asmon]

IME the nob dies plenty often unless you are willing to let the whole squad sit around in base while he heals, you have a painboy, or you have the mek battery pak.

Imo he dies much less often than Banshee Exarch, mainly due to hp difference and squad formation. The rest is true though =)

[Sub_Zero]

With each level he becomes even more ridiculously hard to deal with. Either health or damage has to go. It is just not right to combine tankiness and high damage.

Level 4 - 1900 hp. That is just ridiculous. They overperform banshees who are way more expensive to reinforce and has a leader that dies very often. A true glass cannon leader that deals high damage. However it is not related to the slugga nob somehow.

[FiSH]

They overperform banshees who are way more expensive to reinforce and has a leader that dies very often.

Nothing overperforms banshees at flanking maneuvers and retreat killing.

[Sub_Zero]

Can you answer me a simple question? How is it considered balanced when a squad leader has both standing power and high damage and at the same time grants an ability? Isn't it too much? Isn't it overpowered?

Following numbers about health are absolutely correct because I am in the game now and I am testing it. DPS values might be wrong.

At level 1 slugga nob deals 65 power melee DPS and has 420/475 health.
At level 2 slugga nob deals 71.5 power melee DPS and has 483/543 health.
At level 3 slugga nob deals 78 power melee DPS and has 555/654 health.
At level 4 slugga nob deals 86 power melee DPS and has 638/718 health.

Isn't it outright broken?! A slugga nob is like a damn subcommander, isn't he? How are you supposed to kill him even once if he has over 700 health? Even when he has more than 500 health he is too tanky already if we consider his damage.

Throw in factors how much support slugga boys can get and you have a very cheap and very broken melee unit.

[Barrogh]

Something tells me that overall weight of Slugga nob is a leftover of retail balancing effort trying to make sluggas
1) not garbage nobody wants;
2) scale into T2;
without making them OTT in T1 as well considering that individual boyz were initially balanced around idea that they are chaff similar to individual horma/tick.

[Sub_Zero]

I think reducing that ridiculous power of their nob to something adequate like 50 power melee dps and 300 health to start off seems balanced. And maybe a slight buff to standard slugga boyz in T2. The posted numbers by me are outrageous. Does anyone disagree?

[Kithrixx]

We could always split the health boost that comes from the Nob into its own upgrade called 'Ardboys and give the Sluggaz some additional armor visuals kinda like the Mekboy's.

Just a thought.

[Swift]

That sounds like a good way to transition, but what would you do about the economy in such a situation to make sure you get resources spent in a balanced way?

[Bahamut]

Something tells me that overall weight of Slugga nob is a leftover of retail balancing effort trying to make sluggas
1) not garbage nobody wants;
2) scale into T2;
without making them OTT in T1 as well considering that individual boyz were initially balanced around idea that they are chaff similar to individual horma/tick.

just to clarify, sluggas hp was severly buffed from retail to elite at the cost of nerfing swamp em and taking out the speed bonus from the nob

in elite flamers give 10% hp not 15%, and nob gives 10% not 20%. Also nob itself has 100 less hp than in elite

[Kithrixx]

That sounds like a good way to transition, but what would you do about the economy in such a situation to make sure you get resources spent in a balanced way?

Explain further. I'm not sure what you mean.

[Swift]

That sounds like a good way to transition, but what would you do about the economy in such a situation to make sure you get resources spent in a balanced way?

Explain further. I'm not sure what you mean.

Not many do

I mean that it is all very well to reduce the impact of the nob and add another upgrade in place but how do you propose to balance this? It is only just a query, but I cannot find the words to say it.

I'm English as well, which makes it even worse

[Kithrixx]

That sounds like a good way to transition, but what would you do about the economy in such a situation to make sure you get resources spent in a balanced way?

Explain further. I'm not sure what you mean.

Not many do

I mean that it is all very well to reduce the impact of the nob and add another upgrade in place but how do you propose to balance this? It is only just a query, but I cannot find the words to say it.

I'm English as well, which makes it even worse

Ah, that's what you were getting at. Don't worry about it.

Anyways.

In terms of balancing, I would reduce the Nob's cost slightly (10 req and 5 power sounds fair) to make up for the fact that he's no longer increasing the squad's hitpoints. Alternately, have him retain his current cost and give him a Burna if the squad is upgraded with them (a suggestion that comes directly from my disappointment at the lack of Burna-wielding Nobz despite having support for such a thing).

As for the 'Ard Boyz upgrade, I imagine a price of 50 Req/15 Power would be reasonable enough if it's available at Tier 2.

If we want to go full monty, we could also move the health bonus from Burnas to the 'Ard Boyz upgrade (with the appropriate cost adjustments), but I'm not so sure that would be received very well.

[Forestradio]

Slugga boy nob is so good because sluggas are so crap in t1.

[Torpid]

Please. Sluggas are not crap in t1. Go play Mathis and tell me sluggas are crap in t1.

2 of them with their burnas is an absolute joke alongside the trolololol-boy.