Patch 2.3 Balance changelog

[Aertes]

Could we change Chaos Terminators upgrades into marks to keep with the chaos theme? Guess autocannon should be Tzeench despite the autocannon being a Khorne upgrade on the Havocs. Can't get much more Khorny than giant claws...

I suggested something similar in another thread, changing all the Chaos Terminators options for marks like predators:
Khorne: gives the unit Lightning Claws. Melee option.
Tzeench: gives the unit a Reaper Autocannon. Ranged option.
Nurgle: gives the unit greater health, and maybe a decay aura. Balanced option.

[Indrid]

Terminator marks have been suggested many times. Caeltos seems happy with how they are for the time being.

[lolzarz]

I'd just like to say I'd love to have a chainsword, bolt pistol and 70 melee skill on my Sternguard sergeant. The all-around additional damage is missed sorely, as are the special attacks. I'm sure this has been expressed before, but I think it is something worth trying.

[BaptismByLoli]

Sternguards here are meant to be extremely versatile with their huge range of Ammunation which are
A)Free
B)Can be quickly changed
C)Can handle everything but Vehicles

IMO, they don't need a Melee Sergeant cause Sergeant Melee DPS and Special + ATSKNF can make it harder for Melee units to take care of them and make Sternguards a bit of a pain to handle

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Dark Riku]

I'd just like to say I'd love to have a chainsword, bolt pistol and 70 melee skill on my Sternguard sergeant.

Let's get him on the normal tacs first. ^^ The MS is only 60 atm.

[fankater]

So drop pod lost his ability to reinforce after land ?

[Barrogh]

So drop pod lost his ability to reinforce after land ?

Last time it was discussed, it was supposed to retain function of reinforcement beacon, but no more reinforcement wave on landing.

Which is to say, a shame.

[lolzarz]

Sternguards here are meant to be extremely versatile with their huge range of Ammunation which are
A)Free
B)Can be quickly changed
C)Can handle everything but Vehicles

IMO, they don't need a Melee Sergeant cause Sergeant Melee DPS and Special + ATSKNF can make it harder for Melee units to take care of them and make Sternguards a bit of a pain to handle

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

Then fine... I just want my chainsword and bolt pistol back. It has already been mentioned that sternguard are actually easier to melee than tactical space marines. I don't actually want 60 melee skill; I just want him to fight as good as the tactical space marine sergeant, who apparently had 70 melee skill before someone edited/corrected the codex. Seeing as he has 60, it's going to be difficult for the sergeant to unleash special attacks.

I'd just like to say I'd love to have a chainsword, bolt pistol and 70 melee skill on my Sternguard sergeant.

Let's get him on the normal tacs first. ^^ The MS is only 60 atm.

Wait, it's only 60? I know it says 60 in the codex now, but previously, when I checked, it was 70. Doesn't matter. Want chainsword and specials.

[Wise Windu]

Wait, it's only 60? I know it says 60 in the codex now, but previously, when I checked, it was 70.

That's because it wasn't updated. I only recently started updating it, and even then, there were things that I missed or overlooked, some of those being the SM stats and leveling. Which are now correct.

[Raffa]

Don't mind a sarge for SG, it should be fine. As long as he loses special ammunition. Which I guess defeats the purpose of SG.

[lolzarz]

Why must he lose his special ammunition? It's not like he deals all that much additional damage with his bolt pistol when compared to the standard-issue bolter.

[Barrogh]

Why must he lose his special ammunition? It's not like he deals all that much additional damage with his bolt pistol when compared to the standard-issue bolter.

He can do as much damage as developement team wants him to. The question is whether they need special-capable model or not.

[Dark Riku]

Well, aren't they supposed to be the epitome of the figure of speech:
"jack of all trades, master of none"?

[Forestradio]

SG sarge already has a massive advantage over other leaders in that he doesn't cost anymore than a normal marine to reinforce.

He's fine as is.

[Atlas]

The 25 power would like to speak with you, but I think I see what you're saying.

[lolzarz]

SG sarge already has a massive advantage over other leaders in that he doesn't cost anymore than a normal marine to reinforce.

He's fine as is.

He doesn't have an advantage, because he has normal statistics. If he fights just like a normal sternguard veteran, of course he should cost the same to reinforce. Don't use the Mark of Tzeentch Chaos Space Marine Aspiring Champion as a comparison; Mark of Tzeentch is good enough and the champions of Tzeentch aren't big on close combat anyway.

Speak of an advantage when my sternguard sergeant gets his sword.

[Raffa]

SG sarge already has a massive advantage over other leaders in that he doesn't cost anymore than a normal marine to reinforce.

He's fine as is.

He doesn't have an advantage, because he has normal statistics. If he fights just like a normal sternguard veteran, of course he should cost the same to reinforce. Don't use the Mark of Tzeentch Chaos Space Marine Aspiring Champion as a comparison; Mark of Tzeentch is good enough and the champions of Tzeentch aren't big on close combat anyway.

Speak of an advantage when my sternguard sergeant gets his sword.

lolzarz I can't help but think you're completely missing the point and just looking for a fluffy SM buff.

He becomes a permanent member of the squad. That means you are always charging ATSKNF - do I have to explain how much of an advantage this is? You never pay 25 power to buy him back too.

Bringing TCSM into it further shows the flaws in your logic. "Mark of Tzeentch is good enough" tbh sounds like convenient bullshit to ignore all other factors and just to bring in some "example" which is in favour of your argument.

And having seen there is precisely 0 balance reasoning behind this suggested change, I revise my previous post. I'm absolutely against SG changes, especially since they're working well now.

[BaptismByLoli]

I agree with Raffa. SG are good as is and don't need any changes. Why are you so adamant in getting that Chainsword & Bolt Pistol Sergeant?

[Bahamut]

SG sarge already has a massive advantage over other leaders in that he doesn't cost anymore than a normal marine to reinforce.

He's fine as is.

83 req per model is quite alot, ofc it's power free which is pretty nice

[lolzarz]

I agree with Raffa. SG are good as is and don't need any changes. Why are you so adamant in getting that Chainsword & Bolt Pistol Sergeant?

I personally think that as veterans, Sternguard should outperform tactical space marines in all respects before special weapon upgrades (plasma gun etc.). But because our Tactical Space Marine sergeant has a chainsword, "upgrading" tactical space marines to sternguard actually weaken their close combat capability. I don't think that is good.

[Dark Riku]

SG sarge already has a massive advantage over other leaders in that he doesn't cost anymore than a normal marine to reinforce.

He's fine as is.

All SG already cost more than normal marines...

[Torpid]

And considering the bloodletter's hellblade is basically a lightsaber it should definitely do heavy melee since it tears through armour easily.

[BaptismByLoli]

By the time any T1 or T2 melee unit gets in range to a Sternguard, Hellfire or Kraken Bolt would have severly weaken them to at the very least half their hitpoints. By the time they enter melee combat, ATSKNF will be enough to finish business.

And you mention their Close Combat Capability is reduced? Any reason why you fail to mention anything about their Range Capability getting a (IMO) huge buff as a result of their Multiple Ammunition to choose from compared to normal Tacs?

What you're saying here is tantamount to saying that TCSM AC needs Chainsword and Bolt Pistol rather than an Inferno Bolter so as to 'improve' the Melee Capabilities of TCSM.

[Forestradio]

I personally think that as veterans, Sternguard should outperform tactical space marines in all respects before special weapon upgrades (plasma gun etc.).

They already do.

All SG already cost more than normal marines...

I would rather pay 8 req more than 25 power to reinforce the leader, but perhaps it's just a personal preference.

And considering the bloodletter's hellblade is basically a lightsaber

Not it's not.

[Ace of Swords]

And considering the bloodletter's hellblade is basically a lightsaber it should definitely do heavy melee since it tears through armour easily.

I'd rather have it do heavy melee than power with the worship nerf lol.

[BaptismByLoli]

And considering the bloodletter's hellblade is basically a lightsaber it should definitely do heavy melee since it tears through armour easily.

I literally killed a full health BB in retail by buying 2 Bloodletter combo'ed with Bloodlust in around a minute at most maybe?
The BB was surrounded by 8 Bloodletters and a Chaos Lord so its pathing was screwed

[Dark Riku]

And considering the bloodletter's hellblade is basically a lightsaber it should definitely do heavy melee since it tears through armour easily.

And considering Space Marines are walking tanks and weigh a ton they should do heavy melee since they can rip open tanks with their hands. ASM should instakill infantry they land on. Now gtfo with useless posts.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

And the default Chaos Lord Daemon Sword should one-shot anything but maybe commanders and subcommanders, vehicles and super units. And it's doing less damage than a simple Powersword....

IMHO Sternguards are balanced. Now all ammo types have the same range and all the ammo types have their adequate role.

Why should have the sargent a Chainsword and a "Sternguard" pistol? I mean, Sternguard are a dedicated ranged squad. Even with Chainsword, his role isn't going to change.

I mean, the CSM Aspiring Champion with EW have more melee damage than the default Force Commander Chainsword, but isn't common to see CSM in melee combat after T1.

[Bahamut]

only thing about SG now for me it's kraken bots do a bit too low damage IMO, if it was up to me i'd make them do from 14.58 dps per model to 16.5 dps per model so the dps of the whole squad would go to 66. tac squad with plasma gun does 71 dps to HI and 84 dps when karken bolts are up

[Cheekie Monkie]

Curious thought, but I'm just wondering if any other squad leaders should take a leaf out of the Sternguard book and reinforce with the rest of the squad. Would make flesh hook less of an autoretreat for detectors.

Not sure of its viability, but thought I'd throw it out there regardless.

And considering the bloodletter's hellblade is basically a lightsaber it should definitely do heavy melee since it tears through armour easily.

And considering Space Marines are walking tanks and weigh a ton they should do heavy melee since they can rip open tanks with their hands. ASM should instakill infantry they land on. Now gtfo with useless posts.

I like the sound of this mod.