Patch 2.3 Balance changelog

[sebi.costa]

700rec and 180power for a landraider redeemer that can be deployed anywhere on the map, has a barrage witch damages and knocks back incoming enemy infantry, cant get rear armor penalty, allies can retreat to it and reinforce they get health regen and 25% damage resistance and can get inside to avoid nukes!

Thats way, way too cheap for such utility!

Baneblade for instance needs build time and to make its way from base to the battlefield, ya its getting an increase damage but it looses health! and its 1000rec and 200power and it gets rear armor penalty!

Why does the landraider have such a cheap price and so many bonuses!?!

I know what you mean, it seems odd at first, but the Redeemer for a start, cannot be deployed via deep strike, only the Crusader. Also, it does considerably less than daddy Baneblade, which is a hug consideration. It also has a longer build time. I think you are getting the Redeemer and Crusader and combining them to make the uber Anti infantry Land Raider.

I must have remembered wrong then about it being deploy-able. But still even if it does less damage its still harder to kill, and its impossible to push vs when theres a bunch of space marines who get 25% damage reduction, health regen and reinforce off it, as well as retreat to it. And really, they can get inside, now ur army can survive a nuke, even if the landraider gets killed, ur whole stuff is still there.

If u drop a nuke on a baneblade with ig next to it, they take heavy loses, might pull back to avoid getting the full army wiped and if the baneblade gets killed by it, ur army like i said took heavy looses or retreated.
Thats not fair! Its not balanced! If it looses the "get inside boys" ability it would be okk.

[Swift]

700rec and 180power for a landraider redeemer that can be deployed anywhere on the map, has a barrage witch damages and knocks back incoming enemy infantry, cant get rear armor penalty, allies can retreat to it and reinforce they get health regen and 25% damage resistance and can get inside to avoid nukes!

Thats way, way too cheap for such utility!

Baneblade for instance needs build time and to make its way from base to the battlefield, ya its getting an increase damage but it looses health! and its 1000rec and 200power and it gets rear armor penalty!

Why does the landraider have such a cheap price and so many bonuses!?!

I know what you mean, it seems odd at first, but the Redeemer for a start, cannot be deployed via deep strike, only the Crusader. Also, it does considerably less than daddy Baneblade, which is a hug consideration. It also has a longer build time. I think you are getting the Redeemer and Crusader and combining them to make the uber Anti infantry Land Raider.

I must have remembered wrong then about it being deploy-able. But still even if it does less damage its still harder to kill, and its impossible to push vs when theres a bunch of space marines who get 25% damage reduction, health regen and reinforce off it, as well as retreat to it. And really, they can get inside, now ur army can survive a nuke, even if the landraider gets killed, ur whole stuff is still there.

If u drop a nuke on a baneblade with ig next to it, they take heavy loses, might pull back to avoid getting the full army wiped and if the baneblade gets killed by it, ur army like i said took heavy looses or retreated.
Thats not fair! Its not balanced! If it looses the "get inside boys" ability it would be okk.

The point of a Land Raider is transport. Without it, it loses a lot of utiltiy. The IG will die to nukes a lot because they are squishy, "but remember men, we have more numbers!" Also, Baneblades should never be wiped form Nukes on full health, but on lower health they can be quite vulnerable, I know. They are still tankier than the LR, and whilst you my think this is not so because of rear armour, a Baneblade is likely to be in a situation where rear armour is limited and it is hard to attack it from there.

[sebi.costa]

The point of a Land Raider is transport. Without it, it loses a lot of utiltiy. The IG will die to nukes a lot because they are squishy, "but remember men, we have more numbers!" Also, Baneblades should never be wiped form Nukes on full health, but on lower health they can be quite vulnerable, I know. They are still tankier than the LR, and whilst you my think this is not so because of rear armour, a Baneblade is likely to be in a situation where rear armour is limited and it is hard to attack it from there.

If u get an Eldridge storm to the face, im very sure eldar would just follow it up with something to get the baneblade at low health! When with a landraider, ur stuff gets out of the landraider and ready to fight the eldar.

If u say that its main goal is to be a transport, sure it can lose the 25% damage resistance, or the heals,or the barrage, or the retreat to it. And to be honest we both know the reason u get a landraider is NOT for the transport, its because it pushes lines and its very hard to stop! The transport ability is just an annoying bonus! Its that little something to make the unit op.

[Dark Riku]

First of all Sebi you should get your facts straight.
I don't know what you are arguing about since you are mixing LRC and LRR up.

And really, they can get inside, now ur army can survive a nuke, even if the landraider gets killed, ur whole stuff is still there.

If you drop a nuke on a land raider and they try to get inside the units are wiped before they reach the doors. It takes ages before you can enter a Land raider due to horrible pathing. And it can get one-shotted from full health by and Eldritch if it has passengers due to a bug -.-

Less whine please... The Baneblade does a shitton of damage to everything.
And counters the long range AV teams with the demolisher.

I welcome anyone who leads the charge with a land raider. The LRR is a mobile base. It's not a linebreaker unit at all. It will get destroyed by a lascannon and some other AV pretty damn quickly if you use it like that. Also, the SM player just spend his economy on the Land Raider. Where are your T3 goodies?

[sebi.costa]

First of all Sebi you should get your facts straight.
I don't know what you are arguing about since you are mixing LRC and LRR up.

And really, they can get inside, now ur army can survive a nuke, even if the landraider gets killed, ur whole stuff is still there.

If you drop a nuke on a land raider and they try to get inside the units are wiped before they reach the doors. It takes ages before you can enter a Land raider due to horrible pathing. And it can get one-shotted from full health by and Eldritch if it has passengers due to a bug -.-

Less whine please... The Baneblade does a shitton of damage to everything.
And counters the long range AV teams with the demolisher.

I welcome anyone who leads the charge with a land raider. The LRR is a mobile base. It's not a linebreaker unit at all. It will get destroyed by a lascannon and some other AV pretty damn quickly if you use it like that. Also, the SM player just spend his economy on the Land Raider. Where are your T3 goodies?

Their busy trying to kill the lanraider i guess!
I dont confuse them, its the drop in that i got wrong.
And when a transport gets destroyed units dont get sent to oblivion, they just get out from the husk.
Plus if ur paying attention ur units bunch-up next to the landraider always. U absolutely can get inside with some of them(maybe the set-up pdev wont make it) before the storm hits.
I just gave the baneblade as an exemple.
And for crying out loud, if its a bug it can be fixed. Just like a unit can get balanced.

[BaptismByLoli]

Thats not fair! Its not balanced! If it looses the "get inside boys" ability it would be okk.

And for crying out loud, if its a bug it can be fixed. Just like a unit can get balanced.

These 2 phrases alone make it hard to take you seriously as it (no offence) make it seem that you're either

A) Raging at SM after getting owned by them
B) Ignorant

First of, SM lack mobility and their Super Unit provides them with just that. A mobile base hence why they can get inside and get all them buffs. Without the Buffs or Rear Penalty Immunity, it's just a slow transport and people might as well churn out Predators than that.

And as for your second point, do you know how difficult it is to Program stuff? Let alone code them? Uts not easy finding errors in a sea of interconnected words and commands.

A bug, as simple as it sounds is really not that easy to fix. Especially when 3-4 years have passed and the bug is still present

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[sebi.costa]

Thats not fair! Its not balanced! If it looses the "get inside boys" ability it would be okk.

And for crying out loud, if its a bug it can be fixed. Just like a unit can get balanced.

These 2 phrases alone make it hard to take you seriously as it (no offence) make it seem that you're either

A) Raging at SM after getting owned by them
B) Ignorant

First of, SM lack mobility and their Super Unit provides them with just that. A mobile base hence why they can get inside and get all them buffs. Without the Buffs or Rear Penalty Immunity, it's just a slow transport and people might as well churn out Predators than that.

And as for your second point, do you know how difficult it is to Program stuff? Let alone code them? Uts not easy finding errors in a sea of interconnected words and commands.

A bug, as simple as it sounds is really not that easy to fix. Especially when 3-4 years have passed and the bug is still present

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

I know actually how hard it is, i make websites. I imagine a video game code is +100x harder. It very hard to find a bug in a website code, especially when its not u who made the entire website.
Believe me i know its impossible to find a bug in a game made by another company(so their not even on the same team to ask the ones who made the code for hints).
And grey knights dont have good mobility. They only have the rhino.
Space marines have the razorback as a transport to. A relay beacon gives health regen and reinforce and retreat point. A drop-pod gives reinforcements for free when called in and for money after. Their turrets are the best in the game. Space marines can stay in the field better then any other race.

[BaptismByLoli]

Space Marines have a transport. The Razorback, just like how other factions have their own such as the Chimera, Wartrukk and Falcon.

The Relay Beacon is only available to the Techmarine and Relay Beacons can act as a double-edged sword in some cases, especially in the heat of the game where you forget about said beacon.

Judging by that logic I can also say Tyranids also have good mobility because of Brood Nest even though its available to the Hive Tyrant.

Heck, I can even say that for just 50 Energy and 100 Req, even IG have good mobility because of that Vox Communicator which grants immediate and full reinforcements along with a Chinera support.

Eldar is Eldar with Webway Gate, FoF etc.

And lets not forget global reinforcements as well such as hos Call Da Boyz or Daemon Summoning or whatever its called (That Sorceror Global) allows for reinforcements as well in the heat of battle.

And both Tyranids and IG have many units that are faster then your typical SM

Point is, compared to the rest, SM have poor mobility just because of what the other races are capable of.

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[Ace of Swords]

The base speed of units is also an extremely, and overlooked factor.

[sebi.costa]

Space Marines have a transport. The Razorback, just like how other factions have their own such as the Chimera, Wartrukk and Falcon.

The Relay Beacon is only available to the Techmarine and Relay Beacons can act as a double-edged sword in some cases, especially in the heat of the game where you forget about said beacon.

I agree with the transports u listed and also with the mobility and reinforcements other races have.
I dont agree with saying: "Relay Beacons can act as a double-edged sword", its ur fault for forgetting about it. Its like losing ur commander because u forgot to retreat him out. U have to pay attention, u cant forget about about ur beacon and then calling it "a double-edged sword".
The beacon can get deactivated when ever u want. If u lose because ur marines retreated to it, to bad, next game watch out. If u say its a double-edged sword its like ur saying that the beacon(on its own) screw u up.
Also space marines are very strong defensively, u cant expect them to be good at everything. To have good mobility, to be good defensively, to deal good damage, to have great reinforcements in the field, to have durable units and flexible units, etc...(they already have this entire list)
Discreet honestly did u ever loaded ur army into the landraider and moved to another part of the map?(to say that u use it for its mobility)

[sebi.costa]

The base speed of units is also an extremely, and overlooked factor.

Ace, u have some units u think might need a speed change?
Id like to hear ur opinion on it.

[Caeltos]

There's no need for insulting people. Keep the thread clean.

[BaptismByLoli]

Nope, Rarely used Land Raiders.. Usually prefer to make my enemies retreat as fast as possible rather than slug it out (even though they can early game :p). But a LRR is not used as a transport like that IMO.

To me, you place your LRR in a nearby VP point or wherever you're trying to defend and then set up shop there. Aside from a SM firepower and durability, they'll also need to contend with a 25% defensive buff, suppression immunity, healing aura(if close enough) and also the reinforcements along with that Assault Cannon and Flamer if you're using melee troops. That's how you use a LRR IMO

LRR gives your army mobillty through its staying power

Edit: Not insulting, just voicing out what I feel. Apologies if I unintentionally insulted anyone

[Caeltos]

Edit: Not insulting, just voicing out what I feel. Apologies if I unintentionally insulted anyone

I was referring to a specific post which I deleted. The follow-up comment was closed as a consequence to end the inveitable unproductive statements and comments that would follow.

[sebi.costa]

Edit: Not insulting, just voicing out what I feel. Apologies if I unintentionally insulted anyone

I was referring to a specific post which I deleted. The follow-up comment was closed as a consequence to end the inveitable unproductive statements and comments that would follow.

Love ya Caeltos.
Ya super unit tanks i feel usually are used to camp next to a vp.
Its the great unclean one and the avatar i feel are used more aggressively.
After talking with u guys i feel like the landraider isnt op, but it still is very hard to deal with!

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Edit: Not insulting, just voicing out what I feel. Apologies if I unintentionally insulted anyone

I was referring to a specific post which I deleted. The follow-up comment was closed as a consequence to end the inveitable unproductive statements and comments that would follow.

Hey Caeltos are we expecting 2.3 release to be out this week or soon?

[Caeltos]

To be completely honest, I have no idea. But I think we're getting close. Depends on how much stuff we wanted fixed for the update. We still need the new Chosen Plague Marine models done in order to get that in, otherwise that addition may need to be postponed for another time.

[BaptismByLoli]

Would be nifty if you could release 2.3 first without the Chosen Plague Marine and see how things are first with all the new and big changes IMO. Chosen PM can be added after 2.3 :p.

Though it would be an annoying 500kb 'update'

[PhatE]

... otherwise that addition may need to be postponed for another time.

NNNOOOOOO

[lolzarz]

The Land Raider is slower than my grandmother and it is counter-productive to put units inside for the sake of mobility. But the speed of the Land Raider itself is secondary to its effectiveness in providing mobility for the Space Marine army. While slow, it is still a MOVING retreat beacon, which allows the Space Marine army to converge on one position by retreating. This is something that the relay beacon cannot do, as it cannot move to contested zones. Also, the Force Commander and the Apothecary do not have access to Relay Beacons.

As to your point that Space Marines have good mobility, reinforcements, and defense, I suggest you see some Imperial Guard play. They have this fearless unit with ungodly speed (in tier 1, no less), they have this awesome transport that has incredible firepower, and have turrets and cover all over the place. Don't even get me started on the bunkers.

[ChrisNihilus]

I remember that you wanted to add a DreadKnight, and somebody was building the model.
Any news from that front?

[Orkfaeller]

The guy working on it got a kid I think.

Wouldnt expect Dreadknights anytime in the near future.

[Aertes]

Kids! the great enemy of progress!

Seriously, I'm glad and congratulate the guy.

A Dreadknight is nothing else than a Terminator with an extended exo-suit after all:



I don't know how possible would it be to create a Dreadknight using a Terminator as base, and just wrappng him in the suit. Even using the same animations, or with just slight modifications.

It could use the animations of the SM Terminators with Lightning Claws to attack with both fists, or the animations of the Sm Terminators with Hammer and Shield to attach with the hammer or the sword.

Another option would be taking one of the alternative models that people created, instead of the original one from Games Workshops, like this one:

[ChrisNihilus]

Thank

The guy working on it got a kid I think.

Wouldnt expect Dreadknights anytime in the near future.

I can only imagine how time consuming is to make a model like that.
Less than growing a child for sure, but still, so much work.

It was very bold to simply try to make it.

Do you think GK have all the units needed, anyway?

[Swift]

I think people want it more because it is fluffy. There will be nice reasons balance wise blah blah no one cares. Most people want to see it because it is fluff personified, even if it is one of Matt Ward's devilish fantasies.

[Takadekadaka]

I don't know how possible would it be to create a Dreadknight using a Terminator as base, and just wrappng him in the suit. Even using the same animations, or with just slight modifications.

It could use the animations of the SM Terminators with Lightning Claws to attack with both fists, or the animations of the Sm Terminators with Hammer and Shield to attach with the hammer or the sword.

What if one were to scale down the skeleton for the wraithlord since it's a pretty similar bipedal that also uses one armed melee and one armed ranged attacks?

[Swift]

That would be easier, the problem arises trying to fit the skeleton.

[Flash]

yea that's not gonna work. It would look really bad

[Kithrixx]

The Wraithlord skeleton would also have to be widened because as it stands it is too tall and thin for such an enormous unit. A Dreadknight would be interesting as an alternate to the Land Raider, but then we start begging the question of "how many super units should each faction have" and things can go downhill really, really quickly from there.

That said, please don't leave the Plague Champion for a later patch. I personally don't mind waiting for it to be finished because he's the primary reason I wanted to start playing again.

[Aertes]

The Wraithlord skeleton would also have to be widened because as it stands it is too tall and thin for such an enormous unit. A Dreadknight would be interesting as an alternate to the Land Raider, but then we start begging the question of "how many super units should each faction have".

That's why I think the base to start a Dreadknight could be a Terminator with an extended squeleton that replicates his animations in higher scale.

As for "how many super units", that's simple: the Dreadknights are teleported to the battlefield, so in the case a Dreadknight can be implemented, just replace the "Deploy Land Raider Crusader" global ability with a "Teleport Dreadknight" global ability, when new GK main heroes are implemented, that is. It would be perfect for a Brotherhood Champion hero for example.