Grey Knight Dreadnought ranged weapons

[Forestradio]

Flamer dread

Watch the second game of this exhibition match and tell me that flamer dread does good AoE............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z-tt8Kgdv0

[Torpid]

The problem is that, Lulgrim I know has tried to make this work for a long time, and it just seems frustrating to just scrap the project at this stage when we've come so far to conclude it.

That's the fallacy I suffer from with regards to DOW. I've played for 3k hours so if I stop playing now I'll have wasted all that time, so I need to keep playing until I'm clearly the best player...

It's fallacious because if I'm not benefiting from playing anymore DOW, then irrespective of how long I've played in the past, to play more DOW in the future is to waste time. How much time I have wasted on the game in the past is irrelevant.

What I'm saying is that if Lulgrim has wasted time implementing something that is a design failure then you're the only one to be blamed Caeltos AND if it is poorly designed it shouldn't be implemented purely because a lot of time was spent trying to implement it.

@Forest, you know better than that. The flamer is not meant to be used vs eldar. The flamer does delicious damage vs orks/ig, problem is it's short range so it does need the boost to its courage damage that it will get next patch to be truly worth it.

[Vapor]

The problem is that, Lulgrim I know has tried to make this work for a long time, and it just seems frustrating to just scrap the project at this stage when we've come so far to conclude it.

That's the fallacy I suffer from with regards to DOW. I've played for 3k hours so if I stop playing now I'll have wasted all that time, so I need to keep playing until I'm clearly the best player...

Well clearly your DoW2 goals are different than the rest of us.

Anyway if the grenade launcher thingy is cool from a gameplay perspective then I don't give a fuck what it looks like, but that's just me

[Torpid]

After thousands of hours of 1v1 you realise how terrible the game is and so unless you try and attach some level of achievement to it, far greater than "vast fun", you become terribly depressed at the realisation that you have wasted thousands of hours playing an awfully designed game. Maybe design is the wrong word. Maybe the design was just poorly implemented.

[Caeltos]

That's the fallacy I suffer from with regards to DOW. I've played for 3k hours so if I stop playing now I'll have wasted all that time, so I need to keep playing until I'm clearly the best player...

It's fallacious because if I'm not benefiting from playing anymore DOW, then irrespective of how long I've played in the past, to play more DOW in the future is to waste time. How much time I have wasted on the game in the past is irrelevant.

What I'm saying is that if Lulgrim has wasted time implementing something that is a design failure then you're the only one to be blamed Caeltos AND if it is poorly designed it shouldn't be implemented purely because a lot of time was spent trying to implement it.

I'm not quite sure I understand the relevance here. My post was in direct response to how the smoke launchers actually functions in fluff/tt and aren't actual Grenade Launchers. Whereas my understanding was wrong of it, but that doesn't mean the concept/the idea and the design behind are faulty. Like I said, it could just be remodelled into something that more appropiately makes sense. It's just a cosmetical error that can be adjusted appropiately.

Implementing another type-of weapon that isn't flexible in matchups leads to a specialized weapon that ends up being redundant and pointless add-on to the GK overall army composition wise.

I don't understand what your hour spend on the game is has to do with any of the hours spent by Lulgrim trying to make the implementation (As to making it compatible with upgrades, getting them to fire, and all those shaningans). If we have to re-do everything from scratch and have another process of 6 months of labor to get another thing to work, just from a cosmetic replacement for the smoke-launcher/grenade launcher, then that's a waste of time that can be spent on elsewhere, and we're not exactly a large-sized team. Which means we're sacrificing manpower for bug hunting/further additions and patch-delievering.

And like I said, if we can replace the model of the smoke launcher for a substitute thing that ultimately does the exact same thing without any problems, I'm perfectly fine with it. But imagine it abit from Lulgrims perspective on how many hours he's spent on the damn thing, and only to be like "Yeah, you know that thing you worked on for so long, yeah- we don't need it." It's aggroviating.

The Grenade Launcher works fine so far, you haven't played around with it. You don't know the pricing or the value, so I'm not sure how you're the one to come to a verdict of the performance of something which you have no knowledge about, nor have the concept/draft design of the implementation in mind with the army-composition as a fore-front for the it's implementation decision.

It was designed already when we drafted the Grey Knights to begin with. It just didn't come to full fruition until now.

[Cheah18]

I COMPLETELY AGREE! I am actually so concerned about the hurricane bolter leaving the GK dread with no ranged AV. I mean, hard av is hard enough to come by as gk already

No, it's not just the AV aspect, the melta dread was incredibly good at line breaking and bleeding your opponent, esp eldar/sm/chaos because it killed a model with every shot and had an awesome melee special, and it synergized well with interceptors and made them actually a viable purchase in t2.

And it forced your opponent to invest in hard AV, which is bad against the future GK roster. It delayed the inevitable plasma/power melee spam that is needed to deal with the terminators.

that too, by all means

[Torpid]

@ Caeltos - If it's designed badly then it's designed badly and it should be removed from the game despite how long the design/implementation taken to get it in the game. Note the if. I'm not saying it is designed badly as obviously I haven't used it yet, I'm just pointing out that specific fallacy in which people think they can't get rid of something bad if they've gone on doing it for a long time.

I don't think the fluff smoke launcher/grenade launcher distinction is a viable reason to dismiss the concept already, I think that's rather pedantic. That said, I'm not a huge fluffbunny so...

[Forestradio]

@Forest, you know better than that. The flamer is not meant to be used vs eldar. The flamer does delicious damage vs orks/ig, problem is it's short range so it does need the boost to its courage damage that it will get next patch to be truly worth it.

What the hell.......

Buying a flamer dread vs orks is quite possibly the worst choice you could make, even worse than the plasma cannon, and that's saying something.

And if I invest 580/140 in a dedicated AoE light infantry killer, it better be able to kill shees and dire avengers. The only eldar infantry units it shouldn't shine against are reapers and wraithguard, but wraithguard aren't viable vs GK and reapers should be tied up by BC/GKI immediately.