Heavy Weapon Team repair trait

[Sub_Zero]

As we all know a heavy weapon team used to repair any vehicle while firing its main gun in retail. This ability was changed. Now a heavy weapon team cannot repair and fire its main gun at the same time. You either command it to lay down suppressive fire/unleash explosive shells/pierce vehicles or command to repair a vehicle highly reducing the unit's usefulness. There are no (with rare exceptions) situations in the game when you would prefer command 2 rather than command 1 for this unit.

What was wrong with the ability? Why was it considered as an overpowered ability?

Let's have a look at possible combinations. 1) A heavy weapon team + a sentinel; 2) A heavy weapon team + a chimera; 3) A heavy weapon team + a Leman Russ.

1) It is T1, your heavy weapon teams have no access to the refractor fields and specific weapons. No staying power, no killing potency, just suppressive fire. Any sentinel will be safe in a heavy weapon team's firing arc since no ranged or melee unit will break through it. Let's assume we've got a weakened sentinel. The sentinel retreats to the firing arc of a friendly heavy weapon team. The heavy weapon team cuts off any pursuers of the sentinel. The sentinel can either retreat further in order to get repairs from guardsmen or keep on firing at the pursuers. The pursuers will not be able to destroy the sentinel because they are suppressed and as long as they are there is no threat for the sentinel. The difference between retail and elite is that in retail your sentinel could get repairs from that heavy weapon team and here it cannot get repairs. Does it change things? In retail your sentinel contributes its DPS and gets repaired, here you have to decide either to command your sentinel to attack or command it to fall back in order to get repairs (guardsmen may be situated nearby, so there may be no need to fall back). In both cases the sentinel will be safe and it doesn't matter whether it gets repairs or not because the attackers cannot hurt the sentinel if they are suppressed by the heavy weapon team. The only conclusion here is that if you do not counter the suppression team by a jump unit (or by some other measure) then the sentinel will keep on firing at your units, no matter how weakened it is, as long as it is in the firing arc of the heavy weapon team it is safe. Nothing overpowered here, I suppose.

2) It is T2, heavy weapon teams become scarier. They become significantly tougher and deadlier. What can be broken here? A chimera provides reinforcements. Let's imagine a situation where a chimera and a heavy weapon team hold their own against some unit that is capable of doing anti-vehicle damage as well as against some anti-infantry ranged unit. Let's say a squad of tzeentch marines and a squad of plague marines. The heavy weapon team focuses on destroying the enemy's AV unit while the enemy's ranged unit tries to destroy the heavy weapon team. The chimera provides reinforcements so the heavy weapon team can heavily damage the enemy's AV unit. The squad of plague marines shoots at the chimera but the chimera receives repair support from the heavy weapon team. The chimera stays longer on the field due to repair support hence the heavy weapon team stays longer on the field due to reinforcements and finally enemies are forced to retreat. The glorious couple is victorious. This example is given with the retail's status of the ability. Broken?

3) The same principle here.

What is the conclusion? If you do not shut down the heavy weapon team then you are not going to overcome this repair synergy (I still bear in mind retail's status of the ability).

Absolutely each race has at least one measure to shut down a set up team.

My solution is to bring back the ability to retail's status. I don't see any reason not to do it. That is how this game goes. If a set up team is allowed to fire then you do something wrong.

It is also worth mentiong that it is not that easy to park a vehicle near your heavy weapon team so it can be repaired.

[Swift]

Not really sure on this one, but it would certainly make the repair useful. The thing you propose was removed for a reason, because with repair whilst shooting,, taking down the vehicle becomes so much harder (unnecessarily so). It just seems too powerful, and the should probably keep repair just in case they need it.

[Ace of Swords]

4) Your HWT will de-setup and repair the vehicles after you won the engagement while your gm spread out and recap the map.

And also this stops the HWT from further stacking up repairs making, especially IG vehicles, immortal since you aren't going to break through a chimera or a LR with x3 repair support, even less when you have a lascannon/autocannon annihilating your own vehicles in a few shots, and has it was pointed out by Torpid in another thread, all the IG commanders can provide heavy buffs to the HWT itself, plus it can also get the refractor shield which makes it pretty imba vs everything it's supposed to counter it.

And yes, it was OP before, and definitely too much out of the line compared to all the other setup teams in the game, having the chance of beign upgraded both to a lascannon or autocannon, refractor shield, and it's also the highest damage/fire rate lascannon in the game and of course, as this topic reminds us, it can also repair.

[Raffa]

I disagree, primarily for the reasons mentioned by Ace. Although it is worth having this discussion.

The simple fact is that triple repairs including a setup team that is firing is just OTT. It's a classic trap to try to lure attackers after a weakened sentinel into the arc of a HWT.

In retail this was CRA-ZAY. A HWT could repair your already nuts sentinel (which came with a power-free stomp), and with 2x Gu it was nightmarishly hard to break this line - even if you forced him to concede ground it's unlikely you'd force him off or get your own setup team into an advantageous position.

Nice detail and thought Sub_Zero, but unfortunately I'm on the other side of the argument

[Atlas]

Yeah, going to side with Team Nope on this one. IG T1 would just be unbreakable.

[Dark Riku]

What Ace said.

[Torpid]

You guys also forgot the turret (including LG vanquisher turret which basically requires artillery to kill)/hwt combo. Add in a sent for a real party!

[Swift]

It is for the best that they do not repair and fire.

[Lag]

IMHO it is fine as it is. I use HWT repair a lot.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

HWT can't repair anymore when its stationary anymore isn't it .

[BaptismByLoli]

They(HWT) can only repair when they aren't set-up

[Swift]

They(HWT) can only repair when they aren't set-up

We know. That was the point of the thread.

[BaptismByLoli]

We know. That was the point of the thread.

HWT can't repair anymore when its stationary anymore isn't it .

Was answering ^this.

Do you know what you're talking about XD

[Swift]

Woteva.

Repairing whilst set up was broken. It should stay out of the mod. Plus Sents have to die at some point.

[Barrogh]

Plus Sents have to die at some point.

Which is what they did back then, volley'd by repairing HWT

Would it be broken (or even codeable?) if HWT could repair while setup, but still couldn't shoot and repair at once?

[Bahamut]

yeah it's possible

[jwsoul]

Makes me smile thinking about this and because of that sadly I believe it would be much to powerful.