Patch 2.3 Balance changelog

[BaptismByLoli]

Much more players prefers Kilgarn's version over Retail

[Swift]

I like Kilgarn's Spotters and HWT but I prefer retail GM.

[Raffa]

That's odd, you're the first people I've come across who think retail stuff is better than Kilgarn's.

Use all his stuff, it's totally pro.

[Helios]

Those giant oversized goggles like kinda silly. I will admit, though, the retail GM portrait is pretty good. But pretty much everything else looks bad. Catachans especially, they look like spray tanned guys going "grrrrrr".

[sebi.costa]

* Empyreal Abyss radius 5 damage of Unholy Shards increased from 10 to 20

Thats a bit much, increasing 2x the damage. Plus this nuke has a big range, plus it isnt a bad nuke. Why the big increase? It would be better to go with 15 from 10. 20 is to much.

* All melee oriented walkers now have melee resistance

Am i the only one who thinks this is a bad idea? 40% meele damage resistance is a lot. That's almost half damage negation. Plus these walkers deal a lot of damage in meele. Its gona make using ogryns to hold dreadknots at bay while lascannons finish it off, impossible! (impossible cuz of all the range damage from HWTs and marines, plus obgyns will do less damage, wich makes walkers harder to take down in my exemple) I really hope the wraithlord in its vanila form gets this resistance and loses it if upgraded!
If it was un upgrade, or at least make it 20% or 30% max.

[Vapor]

* Empyreal Abyss radius 5 damage of Unholy Shards increased from 10 to 20

Thats a bit much, increasing 2x the damage. Plus this nuke has a big range, plus it isnt a bad nuke. Why the big increase? It would be better to go with 15 from 10. 20 is to much.

The unholy shards do pitiful damage at the moment, that's what's getting a buff. I think it's justified. The main damage source (the central death zone) is not going to change.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

*
* All melee oriented walkers now have melee resistance

Am i the only one who thinks this is a bad idea? 40% meele damage resistance is a lot. That's almost half damage negation. Plus these walkers deal a lot of damage in meele. Its gona make using ogryns to hold dreadknots at bay while lascannons finish it off, impossible! (impossible cuz of all the range damage from HWTs and marines, plus obgyns will do less damage, wich makes walkers harder to take down in my exemple) I really hope the wraithlord in its vanila form gets this resistance and loses it if upgraded!
If it was un upgrade, or at least make it 20% or 30% max.

Its adequately better suited for dreads ,Melee unit shenanigans procceding to smack the dread till death under snaring effects. That dreadnought wouldn't make a significant impact on the battlefield without any differences. So that 40% melee resistance makes em durable & formidable to Melee units who think they just Waltz in and surround the walker without much supportive efforts. Dreads didn't last that long past T3 even,it improves their survivability vs Nobz/Assualt terminators in T3,etc.

[lolzarz]

* All melee oriented walkers now have melee resistance

Am i the only one who thinks this is a bad idea? 40% meele damage resistance is a lot. That's almost half damage negation. Plus these walkers deal a lot of damage in meele. Its gona make using ogryns to hold dreadknots at bay while lascannons finish it off, impossible! (impossible cuz of all the range damage from HWTs and marines, plus obgyns will do less damage, wich makes walkers harder to take down in my exemple) I really hope the wraithlord in its vanila form gets this resistance and loses it if upgraded!
If it was un upgrade, or at least make it 20% or 30% max.

[/quote]

Why are you using Ogryns to hold down melee walkers again? I mean, you've got melta stormtroopers, you've got lascannon Heavy Weapon Squads and you've got obscene amounts of artillery. If the rest of the enemy army is trying to shoot your Ogryns, they aren't shooting at whatever unit you're blasting away with at the walker.

[ChesterSnapdragon]

Can we please rethink the melee resist on the thornback carnifex? Last game I had termies whacking on it + lascannon + mark target from the Techmarine and it barely felt a thing. Especially considering it has a get out of jail free card with the charge.

[Ace of Swords]

Especially considering it has a get out of jail free card with the charge.

Second that, same thing for the Deff dred, or atleast double the power cost of the burnas'n'bitz

[Torpid]

Defiitely. Still think the DD overperforms as it is...

[sebi.costa]

Why are you using Ogryns to hold down melee walkers again? I mean, you've got melta stormtroopers, you've got lascannon Heavy Weapon Squads and you've got obscene amounts of artillery. If the rest of the enemy army is trying to shoot your Ogryns, they aren't shooting at whatever unit you're blasting away with at the walker.

Why wouldn't I use my ogryns to keep a walker from murdering my stormtroopers or set up teams? Plus its more gonna be a set up team then stormtroopers, since having both is more expensive then the dreadnought, witch means it would be later in the game not when the walker comes out.

[sebi.costa]

Especially considering it has a get out of jail free card with the charge.

Second that, same thing for the Deff dred, or atleast double the power cost of the burnas'n'bitz

I agree, if we all have the same opinion that the unit is a bit overpowered. I really dont see why it should get an extra boost!

[sebi.costa]

* Dreadnoughts + Venerable , Chaos Dreadnought (Claws), Deff Dredd , Carnifex and Wraithlord

Is it just the vanilla wraithlord who gets the boost?
Cuz that's op if he has it even with a ranged weapon upgrade.

[sebi.costa]

Its adequately better suited for dreads ,Melee unit shenanigans procceding to smack the dread till death under snaring effects. That dreadnought wouldn't make a significant impact on the battlefield without any differences. So that 40% melee resistance makes em durable & formidable to Melee units who think they just Waltz in and surround the walker without much supportive efforts. Dreads didn't last that long past T3 even,it improves their survivability vs Nobz/Assualt terminators in T3,etc.

Thats why i said it could be an upgrade, cuz dreadnoughts with that resistance out of the gate is to strong. Plus in T3 u have vanguard, terminators as well as the excellent range firepower of ur marines to keep the nobz or assault terminators at bay. And ur landraider (if u have it ur probably not gonna have terminators for some time) is one of the best T3 units. Plus do u think the relic team that did the game wouldn't have given melee resistance to melee walkers if they would need it?
Im saying it sounds like a bad idea, but i do wanna see how the resistance will effect the game.

[Wise Windu]

Is it just the vanilla wraithlord who gets the boost?
Cuz that's op if he has it even with a ranged weapon upgrade.

It's all versions of the Wraithlord.

Plus do u think the relic team that did the game wouldn't have given melee resistance to melee walkers if they would need it?

Relic made a lot of questionable design decisions. Why do you think this mod exists in the first place?

[Forestradio]

Relic made a lot of really really stupid design decisions.

Fixed.

[Caeltos]

Please for the love of god, just edit your post instead of quadruple posting.

[BaptismByLoli]

Please for the love of god, just edit your post instead of quadruple posting.

<3
True-er words were never spoken

Also, most Walkers do Melee Splash Damage and yeah, Ogryns are melee units. It won't end well for Ogryns. And furthermore, being melee units, Ogryns can be easily countered by suppresion and T1 anti-melee stuff like Eldars having their Rangers, Scouts having Shotguns, Orks having Aiming Wot's Dat and so on and so on. Get a HWT or a melta stormtrooper, and you'll force your enemy to take extra caution with his Walker cause you won't know where the infiltrated Stormtroopers are at or where you set up that Weapon KB immune-HWT.

[Torpid]

Please for the love of god, just edit your post instead of quadruple posting.

<3
True-er words were never spoken

Also, most Walkers do Melee Splash Damage and yeah, Ogryns are melee units. It won't end well for Ogryns. And furthermore, being melee units, Ogryns can be easily countered by suppresion and T1 anti-melee stuff like Eldars having their Rangers, Scouts having Shotguns, Orks having Aiming Wot's Dat and so on and so on. Get a HWT or a melta stormtrooper, and you'll force your enemy to take extra caution with his Walker cause you won't know where the infiltrated Stormtroopers are at or where you set up that Weapon KB immune-HWT.

Such a shame that stormtroopers get killed with two spurts of the deff dread's burnas. Or one special attack + burnas -_-

The HWT with the shield + autocannon alongside sentinel missle launcher is typically what I get. I will get ogryns only if I'm the commissar since then I can support them with AoD and have flak jacket to deter weirdboys. The inq can get her melta pistol. The LG can drop down a heavy turret in the centre of the map alongside his autocannon which will kill a DD pretty fast, especially if you still have the missle sent too.

[BaptismByLoli]

Yeah, cause of how fragile they are I tend to use my Melta Storms the same way I prefer to use my Guardsmen - Defensively, supported and under lots of buff.
The amount of damage they do to vehicles and HI is amazing :p.

But if the enemy keeps Focus Firing on them then I'll just leave make sure that their behind my enemy or my army, preferably the one where the walker is closer.

Tanks and other T3 units will require support, unless their isolated in which case Melta Storms own.

Ogryns I tend to use either with Commissar Lord under 'Inspire Determination' or LG with that Vox-Operator and 'Incoming!' for lulz purposes.

[sebi.costa]

How about this instead, give Ograns a commissar upgrade in t3. Where all he does is add hit points to each member in the squad by x amount, as well as decreases courage damage taken by an X%. That seems reasonable to me since it makes them a tad hard to control/force off.

Todays games made me actually want this buff for the ogryns!
Since everyone is afraid melee walkers cant survive in T3, ogryns have a hard time in T3 to, and they bleed so that bleeds ur economy, unlike a walker who gets repairs.

[Dark Riku]

Todays games made me actually want this buff for the ogryns!
Since everyone is afraid melee walkers cant survive in T3, ogryns have a hard time in T3 to, and they bleed so that bleeds ur economy, unlike a walker who gets repairs.

I feel like we've been here before...
A walker doesn't get an easy escape either in the form of retreat, so once in a bad spot you just straight up lose the thing. Repairing bleeds you time and map control.
Etc... (Look for original discussion :p)

[sebi.costa]

I feel like we've been here before...
A walker doesn't get an easy escape either in the form of retreat, so once in a bad spot you just straight up lose the thing. Repairing bleeds you time and map control.
Etc... (Look for original discussion :p)

Ur right retreating is an awesome advantage. But some walkers have charges so they can escape to(carnifex). But ya most are pretty much fked in a hairy situation.
Here is what happened, i was inquisitor vs komando nob.
I see a group of fully upgraded lvl4 slaggas back capping. I send my lvl 3 ogryns over there to have a word with them. And my ogryns get wiped by the sluggas. I honestly didnt retreat them because i think a T2 melee squad is supposed to win vs a T1 melee squad.
I did end up winning the game, but i still dont get it, how did they lose to sluggas?

[Dark Riku]

Sluggas do a ton of damage in melee, the nob even does power melee and so do the burna models, which are all good versus Ogryns. Heavy melee on the other hand doesn't provide you with a bonus versus the sluggas.

[Torpid]

They should have won if they used their ability AFAIK

[Bahamut]

its because SHI armor gives only 30% resist to normal melee and still get 30% more dmg from power melee

sluggas with burnas got 4 models doing 25dps each in normal melee and 2 models doing 25dps each in power melee and the nob is 65 power melee. Now they're lvl 4 so they get 33% more than that. So you get 100 melee + 115 power melee multiplied by 1.33 = 133 melee dps and 153 power melee, that translate to 292 effective dps against ogryms

Ogryms instead are 35 dps each plus 50 the bone ead. that's 155 dps, u said they were lvl 3 so they get 21% melee damage so 188 dps.

The dps difference is too damn big and the way it's distributed makes it so even with only the nob and 2 slugga models left standing they would still outdps the ogrym squad

[Torpid]

Yeah, now that I think about it because they're leveled that means that the bit of disruption from Use Yer Ead is less useful since the sluggas have more hp AND because the sluggas do more damage in the first place having the slugga's damage and ogryns damage scale evenly is still a bad thing for the ogs...

Question is, how did he get lv 4 sluggas

[Tex]

Yeah, now that I think about it because they're leveled that means that the bit of disruption from Use Yer Ead is less useful since the sluggas have more hp AND because the sluggas do more damage in the first place having the slugga's damage and ogryns damage scale evenly is still a bad thing for the ogs...

Question is, how did he get lv 4 sluggas

That could indeed be the best question asked yet. Level 4 sluggas vs IG? How do?

[Dark Riku]

Level 4 sluggas vs IG? How do?

Micro them? Don't lose them? Let them burn the infantry?