Purified Blades and Psychic Lash

[Forestradio]

Purified Blades: 120/20 cost. Passive enhancement to the Brother Captain, giving him 15 energy burn per melee hit. Units that strike the Brother Captain in melee have a 15% chance of being knocked back upon hit.

This wargear underperforms IMO. Why? Several reasons:

1. The randomness of the defensive knockback does not occur often enough to protect the Brother Captain from melee squads such as AC heretics, aspect shees, and the like. The knockback strength is also rather pitiful, and Grey Knights do not really need another form of knockback that involves praying really really hard that you get really really lucky.

2. The Brother Captain's role in t1 is not to attack units that are energy dependent. Bubble shield commanders and jump troops, which are primary targets for energy drain, are not the optimal target of the Brother Captain due to his low dps (even with the upgraded Force Sword) and lack of disruption. The Brother Captain's role in the early game is to tie up ranged squads, and later on in t1, since Interceptors are not particularly viable atm, set up teams. The energy drain is useless vs these ranged and suppression squads.

3. Poor scaling potential. The teleporter pack and unending purge FAR outshine this wargear in t2 and beyond, providing incredible durability and excellent line-breaking potential respectively.

I am at a bit of a loss of how to change this wargear, it's just completely contrary to the role of the Brother Captain, especially in t1, and too unreliable to have any sort of real impact on a game even if it is your first power purchase.

Psychic Lash: 100/35 cost. Grants the Psychic Lash ability, 50 energy cost, Flings a target unit a distance 30 in the direction of the Brother-Captain, and does 120 psychic damage. Range 30, 60 second cooldown. 120 psychic damage does 90 damage to commanders, 180 damage to (S)HI, and 120 damage to normal infantry.

This wargear is both bullshit broken and bad at the same time. It's absurdly expensive for what it does, but it's a flesh hook ability and does not really allow for any sort of counterplay. It's good for sniping the weirdboy, the occasional aspiring champion or SM sergeant, and eldar squad leaders (although the teleporter is superior vs eldar in general). It's awesome with purifiers and their retreat chasing potential, especially vs single entities, but it's just too much of an investment in an already expensive t2 for it's payoff.

forestradio suggests: reduce cost to 100/25. Change it from a "Flesh Hook" styled ability to a "Mind War" styled ability in which the Brother Captain deals 120 heavy_melee damage and suppression over a span of 4 seconds ( heavy melee damage instead of psychic to prevent spiking against SHI and HI and better vs commanders) over time to a single model. Retain the low cast range, and make it channeled.

Input and replays are appreciated.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Oh yeah Purified Blades /Psychic leash were undermined/underrated .

Some People said Purified blades didn't need a buff, Your summary should contradict that point. Its only good vs Singular entities and Heroes,like you said,it doesn't progressively scale effectively ... I End up getting Unending purge/Teleporter pack instead . Maybe PB should have higher KB chance like 40% and burn 40 energy else just remove this accessory and replace it with something better.. Even the Witchblade drains more and Anointed power Axe/TM Axe. The KB strength is significantly Weak and not AOE-purposed . Doesn't last second save the BC from inevitable death scenario with its low-chances of KB.

Pyshic lash A sniping tool meant to kill Sub-commanders . Good in 1v1/2v2, railing em in to GKI/Purif for a finisher ,its no way capacity acts like FLesh hook,can't manually catch Sgt and stuff,just a model ,how's it broken lulz? Just slightly overpriced for t2 wargear that doesn't do a whole lot.
Though your suggestion of changing to Mind war state is a good idea

[Freem]

Oh yeah Purified Blades /Psychic leash were undermined/underrated .

Some People said Purified blades didn't need a buff, Your summary should contradict that point. Its only good vs Singular entities and Heroes,like you said,it doesn't progressively scale effectively ... I End up getting Unending purge/Teleporter pack instead . Maybe PB should have higher KB chance like 40% and burn 40 energy else just remove this accessory and replace it with something better.. Even the Witchblade drains more and Anointed power Axe/TM Axe. The KB strength is significantly Weak and not AOE-purposed . Doesn't last second save the BC from inevitable death scenario with its low-chances of KB.

Pyshic lash A sniping tool meant to kill Sub-commanders . Good in 1v1/2v2, railing em in to GKI/Purif for a finisher ,its no way capacity acts like FLesh hook,can't manually catch Sgt and stuff,just a model ,how's it broken lulz? Just slightly overpriced for t2 wargear that doesn't do a whole lot.
Though your suggestion of changing to Mind war state is a good idea

It's similiar to the flesh hook, and you can snipe sergeants with it, it's basically a t2 flesh hook which you can buy....

[Raffa]

Agree on Purified Blades, not on Psychic Lash.

Psychic lash is the GK counter to a Lictor Alpha. Lictor hooking your stormtroopers squad leaders into a nid swarm is obviously bullshit. But throwing a Lictor into your GK units will delete him just as fast unless he spams retreat, even then he doesn't always get out. Ring any bells?

Lictor, with Phermones, jump and some melee weapon is a monster for GK to deal with - I'm sure as GK player you'll know what I'm talking about. The mobile Rhino gunner might help for this next patch. Even so it is a hard MU, but your payback is Psychic Lash. Gives people using Lictor a taste of their own medicine.

I normally get teleporter, but exceptions can always be made

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Not very similar I rarely seen Pyshic leash being utilized . Its not an instant hook animation ,takes a few second to activate. Maybe vs KN/Chaos sorc/Apothecary,,etc then its useful, LA can be invisible from afar to hook Sgts unlike BC.

[Aertes]

I dont agree with psychic lash being that useless except against commanders.

In one of my games, I used it to pull one of the three melee tyranid warriors away from a combat against my strike squad. Removing 1/3 of the melee capacitiy of this unit allowed my strike squad to overwhelm the other 2 warriors, while the lashed one was smashed by the captain's daemon hammer.

The same should be easy to apply to any jump troop, ogryns and any heavy melee unit with few models.

[Torpid]

Purified blades is a true garbage wargear.

Psychic lash is alright and could serve to only cost 30 power. I like the flesh hook ability, just because I appreciate any bit of OP that I can get my hands on as GK. It also makes it a teeny-weeny bit possible to beat orks as it makes the WeBo killable.

[Freem]

Not very similar I rarely seen Pyshic leash being utilized . Its not an instant hook animation ,takes a few second to activate. Maybe vs KN/Chaos sorc/Apothecary,,etc then its useful, LA can be invisible from afar to hook Sgts unlike BC.

Just because you usually don't see a wargear (in casts i guess?) doesn't mean that it's bad. You can "flesh hook" them just when the engagement is about to start, you don't need the invis
and +1 to raffa and torp

[Raffa]

Psychic Lash gives you a way of dealing with GK's biggest problems. It's not ideal, but it works and prevents certain units roflstomping the entire GK roster, such as WeBo.

With the upcoming patch, a simple but really effective combination if teleporter + Halberd. This lets the BC bully most artillery and consistently inflict model losses, which is absolutely VITAL as GK. I literally cannot stress this enough, although of course it applies to all races, for me it applies to GK almost as much as IG. Normally you have to invest a lot of resources right from reaching T2, which comes as a double-edged sword.

The upside is your T2 units are very powerful if you use them together and don't make stupid mistakes, the downside is they are expensive and require serious investment. For instance to maximise the GK Libby you want Purifiers, fully upgrading both units. The Vindicare is worth it if your opponent has no quick way to delete him. Simple. The potential for sniping warriors, tacs, hurting light vehicles, etc.. or one-shotting many setup models is far too good to pass up IMO. The downside of this unit is he is not cheap (you need the health + regen, it's just a question of when you buy it) and because of no infiltration is almost guaranteed to die.

Now what Psychic Lash does is maximise your potential for bleeding races that don't want to bleed. IG couldn't really give a shit so get the teleporter or the first item.

I consider it mandatory against Eldar for hurting their Exarches, even a banshee one pulled while the rest are running in is going to get gangbanged by your entire army.

[Forestradio]

Oh trust me, I take great satisfaction in watching Lictor Alpha players say "WTF IS THAT ABILITY" when I counter their bullshit with my own bullshit. You can also snipe zoanthropes and the DoM (who wtf pwns your whole army) with it.

I just really really don't like abilities that don't allow for counterplay by your opponent.

As for Purified Blades, the Unending Purge is way more useful, esp vs nids with double crippling poisons.

It's not ideal, but it works and prevents certain units roflstomping the entire GK roster, such as WeBo.

If only it prevented unshakable bubble shield heroes from doing so

[Tex]

Giving purified blades a short stun effect instead of a knockback would make more sense, would at least allow the BC to go 1v1 against knockback immune stuff like shielded commanders, unshakeable commanders, or even to an extent, terminators.

I honestly wish psychic lash was more reliable. Flesh hook has been made to be pretty reliable and it casts instantly. If anything, psychic lash should cast instantly too. It is 35 power for goodness sake.

[Ar-Aamon]

I totally agree with Forest. Purified Blades are just meh.

I am at a bit of a loss of how to change this wargear, it's just completely contrary to the role of the Brother Captain, especially in t1, and too unreliable to have any sort of real impact on a game even if it is your first power purchase.

I would change this gear from scratch. Maybe an ability like Coruscating Flame (Glowing Weapon effect on a targeted squad)!? This would help against melee oriented builds A LOT.

[Dark Riku]

Even the Witchblade drains more and Anointed power Axe/TM Axe.

They all drain 15 energy per hit.

[Forestradio]

Giving purified blades a short stun effect instead of a knockback would make more sense, would at least allow the BC to go 1v1 against knockback immune stuff like shielded commanders, unshakeable commanders, or even to an extent, terminators.

If it's going to be an effect on melee hit, it's needs to be waaaaaaay more reliable. Like a 50 percent chance of happening. Because right now it doesn't really do anything.

And then you could increase the cost to 25 power or w/e.

[Dark Riku]

If it's going to be an effect on melee hit, it's needs to be waaaaaaay more reliable. Like a 50 percent chance of happening. Because right now it doesn't really do anything.

And then you could increase the cost to 25 power or w/e.

1 out of 2 melee attacks towards the BC will cause your model to be knocked back? Yeah, that doesn't sound OP at all... 15% knockback in melee is a lot.
He's passively doing specials on 15% chance without the damage a special does and only on 1 model at a time but while still attacking himself.

[Forestradio]

1 out of 2 melee attacks towards the BC will cause your model to be knocked back? Yeah, that doesn't sound OP at all... 15% knockback in melee is a lot.

Yes, no other commander has wargear/abilities that allows them to do knockback at will. Oh wait, several of them do, and some of them don't even have to pay for it!

He's passively doing specials on 15% chance without the damage a special does and only on 1 model at a time

So what you're saying is that he's not doing specials

And you left out the important part where the enemy actually has attack the Brother Captain for the knockback to even have a chance of happening at all.

[Dark Riku]

Knockabck passively 50% of the time? Oh rly? Please show me this unicorn.

I was comparing it to specials in the hope you would understand ...

[Forestradio]

You could increase the power cost, add a toggle on/off ability that drains energy for the defensive knockback, remove energy drain from hits (which is quite useless anyway), etc

A 50 percent chance of kback is not inherently OP

But right now, there is literally no situation that this wargear is worth it in. Not even vs an opponent who has an energy dependent commander and jump troops and a "swarmy" melee unit that attacks quickly.

[Broodwich]

I'm all for a cost adjustment on both wargears. Perhaps a better effect for purified blades

[Ar-Aamon]

Well the passive knockback doesn't help the BC at all because he is ignored by melee squads. As forest pointed out his role is to tie up range squads. Therefore an ability like Coruscating Flame would really help out GK in T1 to approach melee builds. Cast it on SS and they won't be butchered by sluggas etc.

[Raffa]

Passive 50% knockback chance on hit is far too high.

Although as said I think the wargear needs a rework.

[Forestradio]

Well, the idea of it draining energy (say 3-4 per second) and being a toggle on/off would offer a window where the Brother Captain is protected due to the high knockback chance. You would have to choose whether you want a bigger window of "can't touch dis," or using WATH.

And it wouldn't work on retreat at all, the way bubble shields don't. So if you retreated through shees, AC tics, burna sluggas, etc they would all get plenty of hits in.

And then it opens up synergy with the Strike Squad Justicar in t2, who is atm rather lackluster.

Cast it on SS and they won't be butchered by sluggas etc.

Strikes vs t1 melee units is incredibly luck-based, esp in the early game, and what really decides the fight is whether or not you get specials.

I would also be terrified of a coruscating flame on purifiers in t2.

[Broodwich]

That makes an interesting idea.

Purified blades gives unit+2 or 3 ms with/out energy burn? It rather fits the theme of gk

[Ar-Aamon]

But Forest any reasonable player won't attack the BC first. He is a low priority target in T1. They go after him when your army is forced off and then the ability is pretty much useless. I can tell you that coruscating flame is awesome against tics, hormagaunts, sluggas and banshees. Combine it with a Purgation Squad and your SS will start to seriously hurt them.

[Forestradio]

The best way to improve purified blades would be to make it a RELIABLE form of control against melee single entities.

Melee squads are not a problem unless they are combined with single entities.

[Raffa]

But Forest any reasonable player won't attack the BC first. He is a low priority target in T1. They go after him when your army is forced off and then the ability is pretty much useless. I can tell you that coruscating flame is awesome against tics, hormagaunts, sluggas and banshees. Combine it with a Purgation Squad and your SS will start to seriously hurt them.

Yes, a good opponent will not target the BC if he has other targets. However, a good GK player will make it difficult to target anything but the BC, just like good CL players will get you shooting the CL, even though you don't want to. For instance, buy the regen armour (though it's overpriced atm) and lead with the BC, firing grenades with your nazis. If he has jump troops, you keep the BC furthest forward but still close to your nazis.

If you get jumped - you can try to kite away with WATH and possibly dodge it if the jump wasn't perfect and your timing is good. Whatever happens you counter-initiate with the BC and SS, backing your storms off. This is why the upgraded force sword is so good against jump troops - gives a little extra dps but more importantly lets your grenade nazis back off quickly and get into positions to start shooting safely.

When you're charging a position in T1, use the BC to lead and preferably the knockback grenades to let him close in safely. Use your gunline to shoot targets in priority order whilst the BC ties up the dangerous stuff and refuses to die (since of course if he gets swamped you started shooting him with grenades).

[Ar-Aamon]

True that Raffa and in this situation it would be wiser to buy Unending Purge anyway. However Purified Blades need a complete rework. Do you have some nice ideas?

[Tex]

The regen armor is not overpriced.

I think its absolute bullshit that it is going down to a 20 power item.

He is an unshakeable commander and you are adding HP + .35 regen. That's just...

Same goes for spiky bitz. All of the changes add up to it needing to be at 25 power again.

[Torpid]

^ Agreed

[Raffa]

To clarify:

This is on a super OP Speed 4 hero, who does not brawl like other melee heroes and although he has a large HP pool, that is his biggest advantage and is countered by him being the slowest hero in the game.

Added to the fact that your nazis are very fragile and your damage dealers in T1, your BC has to be able to (if you micro him correctly) continually draw fire so you can deal enough damage to win the engagement. That is how the GK T1 works.

An armor upgrade is pretty much mandatory for the BC in T1, because one way or another you have to increase your field sustainability and this is done either by locking out enemy abilities, esp. against Eldar and Orks or by just tanking more against others. If you don't do that all other races beat you unless you go for 2x Purgations (which I do not recommend) or Interceptors (which I even more do not recommend).

That and I've been planning for next patch with Halberd + Aegis + Teleporter for 85 power