Snipers vs Eldar

[Freem]

Anyway, instead of fighting like little babies, why don't you 2 play eachother, Riku as eldar and Tex as SM then post the replays?

The problem is that in-game you usually do mistakes and crap like that, you can't say that rangers are UP because player X didn't wipe them when he had the chance etc.

[Atlas]

Nobody has mentioned that buying sniper kit on scout increases the reinforce cost for scouts and adds a power cost

I did in one of my posts. Rangers are then 50/5 and Sniper Scouts are then 35/6.

[Tex]

I would gladly play against Riku.

In fact, I just skimmed through some casted games and found one where I beat his warlock with my apothecary. Obviously some things were different then, (sternguard hellfire has been nerfed, AoD was bugging out which actually kept me in the game, warlock leap was overly retarded OP, etc) but it still stands that SM do an admirable job against eldar, and its not nearly as one sided of a relationship as many would believe.

[Sneery_Thug]

Yesterday I(TM) played in the lane vs Manisz(FS.)
I had scouts, 2 tacs and asm, Manisz - 2 dire avengers, shees and 2 rangers. He didn't blob the rangers - they were spread out behind dire avengers with shees guarding rangers. When i moved out of green cover - rangers made 1-2 (2 rangers= 3-4) shots on my tacs and flelt on foot little away - so I couldn't jump them due to the high range (and shees) so they harassed/bled my tacs (1-2 shots*2 rangers = 1 tac model even in cover). When I moved my whole army forward - he fleet on foot little back, stationed rangers (and avengers) to harass my army again. Obviously he "guide"d his squads.

I didn't lose much, but it was like a little and permanent bleeding .

What should I do in this case? Spread out my units to cap? - he would bleed my squads and move avay to reposition his army. Or should I build 2 asm to disrupt rangers and shees ?

[Torpid]

2 ASM all the way. That or concede because of how stupid snipers are in team games.

[Ace of Swords]

Learn to fast tech, why do you even go 2 scouts vs eldar in team games, you might get the second one later for double snipers if he purchases double shuri, but there is no point for double scouts otherwise.

Just hold your power and slowly push him back and get rb out, then a dred.

If he is FS he will easily beat out 2 asm in t1 with doom and stones, and that even with his build isn't an over instement since you just wasted 100 power on 2 units that will bleed alot, and you will also have to purchase stuff on your own scouts and hero to make them effective.

Just purchase 1 asm to stall the lane and go t2.

[Tex]

Agreed. Teching vs eldar is of utmost importance in team games.

Also, its true, rangers are the most fucking broken unit in team games you can imagine.

Last tid bit here, I was looking through some stuff and I actually have to side with what a few people are saying, it definitely looks as though the rate of fire for rangers is a bit on the absurd side considering how much distance they can put between themselves and other stuff.

[Nurland]

Playing against Manisz is bitch since there is no denying he is among the most skilled DoW players atm.

But yeah double scouts straight out of the gate against eldar is probably not a good idea. Fast tech is prolly the best idea on that scenario. Torpid's double asm might also do nicely.

[Sneery_Thug]

Thank you guys for those fast replies!

... because of how stupid snipers are in team games.

... why do you even go 2 scouts vs eldar in team games...

...But yeah double scouts straight out of the gate against eldar is probably not a good idea.

I had only 1 scout squad and those were no snipers (so my question above is a little bit off topic.) I asked here just because of the discussion of 2 rangers.

2 ASM all the way.

I like to purchase 2 asm's when I play Apo. But with TM or FC?


So generally - fast teching while protecting power is the way to go.) Thanks again.

[Torpid]

Playing against Manisz is bitch since there is no denying he is among the most skilled DoW players atm.

In team games sure. His 1v1 is very unimpressive however. The amount of times I've seen him go for raptors vs apos is just absurd now.

I guess whether you want dual ASM or not will depend on what your teammates are doing/capable of - if they can feed you by building gens for you and playing defensively then go for the dual asm with upgraded scouts and hero. Otherwise as the TM/FC it's better to fast tech. You want the MCB as the TM since you will be able to bleed the rangers and the shees quite significantly with it. The halo is good on the FC as you retain the bolt pistol so you can bleed stuff you're chasing and it counters kinetic pulse without wasting battlecry while making you tankier too. Apo with his MCB is just a beast alongside dual ASM.

[Nurland]

Never played 1v1 against him so can't really comment on that (not that my is impressive or anything). I have seen him do decently in tournaments though. At lest in the games I have seen.

[Dark Riku]

His 1v1 is more than fine.

[Manisz]

Yesterday I(TM) played in the lane vs Manisz(FS.)

@Sneery
I know Europe has gone crazy about that 'gender' thing lately, and we all are under heavy impression of Conchita Wurst's performance, but come on... Stop genderism in dawn of war2! It was a WARLOCK, not a FARSEER (both without beards so I understand that confusion). I had only 1 DA and You did a lot of stupid things in that game.

-second tac squad was pointless
-sterguards as first t2 upgrade
-Your asm jumps were completely random and didn't hit even once
-You bought MCB and never used high powered shot on anything
-You were running in circles against rangers allowing them to shoot

My advice would be to stop using green cover vs snipers (they ignore it) and get 2x asm or try to stall the lane and tech for fast RB (and stop playing 3v3 with randoms if You want to get better).

@torpid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uii3VhELiuE

[Kvek]

Torpid didn't deny that you're one of the best team-mode player, he only said that your 1v1 isn't as good as your team-game.
Felt like you guys misunderstood that

[Raffa]

Playing against Manisz is bitch since there is no denying he is among the most skilled DoW players atm.

Lolwut.

Manisz I love you man you're a v. good player but, umm, Nurland this is a little OTT.

[crazyman64335]

personally i'm no mod but i know i speak for all forum moderators when i'll say this

LEAVE PLAYER NAMES / SKILL OUT OF THE CURRENT TOPIC. this isn't a thread talking about x player or something. it's snipers vs eldar, that is the topic, talking about other players skill levels only starts flame wars and it's stupid and pointless. So either resume commenting on the topic or don't post at all

[Sneery_Thug]

Yesterday I(TM) played in the lane vs Manisz(FS.)

@Sneery
... It was a WARLOCK, not a FARSEER (both without beards so I understand that confusion). I had only 1 DA ...

Hell, I'm a sleepy retarded ****. xD

-Your asm jumps were completely random and didn't hit even once
-You bought MCB and never used high powered shot on anything

The thing was - I couldn't jump your rangers bacause of the longer sight range and shees at their back. -.- Same for MCB - I didn't see your units exept of avengers.

My advice would be to stop using green cover vs snipers (they ignore it)

Hell, I'm a sleepy retarded **** (facepalm.)

(and stop playing 3v3 with randoms if You want to get better)

So true. -.-

2*asm - I have the feeling, that Warlock with Merciless Witchblade and Champion's Robe eats asms for breakfast.

Btw, I haven't watched Eurowision.)

[Arbit]

IMO the way to go against that ranger heavy build is to gear up against... banshees. With bionics and MCB your TM is basically shee-proof, so the only units that threaten your TM are the DA squad and the warlock. Get fully upgraded scouts (sarge, shotties, infiltration) and push aggressively, leading with your TM and infiltrated scouts and your double tacs just behind. Use MCB and tac focus fire on the banshees and use scouts to control the warlock. Once you have forced off the shees then you have free to reign to push aggressively against the rangers. You may lose scout and/or tac models but you should be able to pop several shee mods and potentially a ranger or two. More importantly, you get control of the lane. The rangers will have to retreat or infiltrate and fall back - hound them with your infiltrated scouts and have you tacs + TM follow as closely as they can so if the rangers stop to fire they will take return fire from your stuff. Break LOS with your scouts if the rangers get enough distance that they can safely shoot.

Yes, that's a lot of power spent on scouts and the TM, but double rangers + pathfinder upgrades + shee aspect cost ~100 power, plus potential warlock and DA wargear. IMO you usually want fully upgraded scouts by the end of the game so get those upgrades early when they will have the most impact.

[Phoenix]

IMO the way to go against that ranger heavy build is to gear up against... banshees. With bionics and MCB your TM is basically shee-proof, so the only units that threaten your TM are the DA squad and the warlock. Get fully upgraded scouts (sarge, shotties, infiltration) and push aggressively, leading with your TM and infiltrated scouts and your double tacs just behind. Use MCB and tac focus fire on the banshees and use scouts to control the warlock. Once you have forced off the shees then you have free to reign to push aggressively against the rangers. You may lose scout and/or tac models but you should be able to pop several shee mods and potentially a ranger or two. More importantly, you get control of the lane. The rangers will have to retreat or infiltrate and fall back - hound them with your infiltrated scouts and have you tacs + TM follow as closely as they can so if the rangers stop to fire they will take return fire from your stuff. Break LOS with your scouts if the rangers get enough distance that they can safely shoot.

Yes, that's a lot of power spent on scouts and the TM, but double rangers + pathfinder upgrades + shee aspect cost ~100 power, plus potential warlock and DA wargear. IMO you usually want fully upgraded scouts by the end of the game so get those upgrades early when they will have the most impact.

How do you want to hunt 2 rangers with shotty scouts?? Rangers have the higher keen sight range, they will spot you, pop 2 scout models and fall back with the rest of the eldar force. Your 2 tac squads are too slow to chase so you run after them with no result since when you stop to cap/bash power he will just start shooting with his rangers again.

[Sneery_Thug]

IMO the way to go against that ranger heavy build is to gear up against... banshees. With bionics and MCB your TM is basically shee-proof, so the only units that threaten your TM are the DA squad and the warlock. Get fully upgraded scouts (sarge, shotties, infiltration) and push aggressively, leading with your TM and infiltrated scouts and your double tacs just behind. Use MCB and tac focus fire on the banshees and use scouts to control the warlock. Once you have forced off the shees then you have free to reign to push aggressively against the rangers. You may lose scout and/or tac models but you should be able to pop several shee mods and potentially a ranger or two. More importantly, you get control of the lane. The rangers will have to retreat or infiltrate and fall back - hound them with your infiltrated scouts and have you tacs + TM follow as closely as they can so if the rangers stop to fire they will take return fire from your stuff. Break LOS with your scouts if the rangers get enough distance that they can safely shoot.

Yes, that's a lot of power spent on scouts and the TM, but double rangers + pathfinder upgrades + shee aspect cost ~100 power, plus potential warlock and DA wargear. IMO you usually want fully upgraded scouts by the end of the game so get those upgrades early when they will have the most impact.

How do you want to hunt 2 rangers with shotty scouts?? Rangers have the higher keen sight range, they will spot you, pop 2 scout models and fall back with the rest of the eldar force. Your 2 tac squads are too slow to chase so you run after them with no result since when you stop to cap/bash power he will just start shooting with his rangers again.

True. And on top of it: you can not knockback Warlock with champion's robe with shotguns, perhaps u can control shees, but there are 2 rangers, who control your scauts.

So in the end Torpid and Manisz are right - 2 asm squads or fast tech (as well as Ace said.)

[Arbit]

Basically you put your TM first, infiltrated scouts about the same, and tacs behind. You push forward with the TM, putting him in the position where if the rangers want to shoot your tacs, they'll get shot by the TM. The TM can soak up many sniper shots with the HP boost and regen from the armor, and the 0.6 damage modifier to commander armor snipers have. You can tell when your scouts are detected because they'll glow red. Pull back a little as soon as they start glowing. You can use LOS breakers to protect your scouts as well. The scouts aren't there to really put damage out, just to put pressure on if they stop to setup and fire. I admit you're pretty fucked if they get a shuri, but that's yet more power.

IME using ASM aggressively to hunt down rangers gets them ganked by the warlock and shees because the TM is too far back to support. This only gets worse in T2 once the shees have their exarch, distort field global to protect shees, warpthrow to further separate SM support, etc.

Also, how do you fast tech when you've ceded control of the field to the snipers? You lose your req points and bleed yet more req from model losses.

Admittedly I haven't tried 2x ASM.