Hive Nodes

[Torpid]

I believe hive nodes (HN) are in a very peculiar situation at the moment. In the next patch they will regenerate hp very slowly, which is perfectly fine as they can't be repaired and the rate is ofc not gonna be anything like nurgle worship. Regardless the structure is odd in that it is very rarely seen, but often really really powerful when employed.

Currently the structure costs 150/20 on a race which has a fundamentally powerful economy. As tyranids you really ought to apply severe pressure onto your enemies in order to crush their economy in t1 and so you can easily overwhelm in t2 even if they bring on the big guns in the form of a dreadnought. So you want to rush a gen farm, and while your there you plant a HN. Obviously this means your playing RA. So you get the melee t1 upgrade, horms upgraded, 2x terms and a BSWB. This build is completely unmovable in t1 when near the hive node. Anything that jumps forward just gets butchered by the RA/horms; melee is crippled by the termagants and quickly suppressed and forced off; not to mention the hive node itself deals damage to nearby foes, and snares enemy units; as well of course as granting ridiculous ranged damage protection to all units in the blob. Basically in 2v2 this let's you pin your foes in their bases so you can tech to a swarmlord before they are heavily in t2, and in 1v1 it guarantees a gen farm wipe. The extent to which these occurrences are imbalanced really depends on the map. HNs are pretty OP on valderus for example. They are especially deadly to IG/eldar who lack jump units.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that hive nodes are odd in that they make the early tyranid pressure ridiculous (imagine a couple of hive nodes outside your base, 2x terms, BSWB and tunnels for quick reinforcement) and just plain too good vs space marines/IG/eldar. I don't like the way they aren't used defensively which ought to be there purpose. So I would suggest a change to them.

I think it would be better if the hive nodes were able to shoot out their protective smog over an area, this would allow it to be used as a defensive structure, just put it in a key location in the centre of the map a bit, but a little back so it won't die, and then it provides a good support role to the tyranid army like chaos shrines do, without being blatantly OP in some scenarios. Also though, because this would effectively be buffing it, it shouldn't snare melee with the smog, the smog should just reduce incoming ranged damage and shouldn't hurt enemy units if they go in it. It would also be nice then if the node itself provided basic synapse and the price was increased to 200/25.

What do you guys think, and if you don't believe me regarding hive node OP, let's play on valderus and invite me, I'll see if I can replicate what I did before

[Rataxas]

I believe hive nodes (HN) are in a very peculiar situation at the moment. In the next patch they will regenerate hp very slowly, which is perfectly fine as they can't be repaired and the rate is ofc not gonna be anything like nurgle worship. Regardless the structure is odd in that it is very rarely seen, but often really really powerful when employed.

Currently the structure costs 150/20 on a race which has a fundamentally powerful economy. As tyranids you really ought to apply severe pressure onto your enemies in order to crush their economy in t1 and so you can easily overwhelm in t2 even if they bring on the big guns in the form of a dreadnought. So you want to rush a gen farm, and while your there you plant a HN. Obviously this means your playing RA. So you get the melee t1 upgrade, horms upgraded, 2x terms and a BSWB. This build is completely unmovable in t1 when near the hive node. Anything that jumps forward just gets butchered by the RA/horms; melee is crippled by the termagants and quickly suppressed and forced off; not to mention the hive node itself deals damage to nearby foes, and snares enemy units; as well of course as granting ridiculous ranged damage protection to all units in the blob. Basically in 2v2 this let's you pin your foes in their bases so you can tech to a swarmlord before they are heavily in t2, and in 1v1 it guarantees a gen farm wipe. The extent to which these occurrences are imbalanced really depends on the map. HNs are pretty OP on valderus for example. They are especially deadly to IG/eldar who lack jump units.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that hive nodes are odd in that they make the early tyranid pressure ridiculous (imagine a couple of hive nodes outside your base, 2x terms, BSWB and tunnels for quick reinforcement) and just plain too good vs space marines/IG/eldar. I don't like the way they aren't used defensively which ought to be there purpose. So I would suggest a change to them.

I think it would be better if the hive nodes were able to shoot out their protective smog over an area, this would allow it to be used as a defensive structure, just put it in a key location in the centre of the map a bit, but a little back so it won't die, and then it provides a good support role to the tyranid army like chaos shrines do, without being blatantly OP in some scenarios. Also though, because this would effectively be buffing it, it shouldn't snare melee with the smog, the smog should just reduce incoming ranged damage and shouldn't hurt enemy units if they go in it. It would also be nice then if the node itself provided basic synapse and the price was increased to 200/25.

What do you guys think, and if you don't believe me regarding hive node OP, let's play on valderus and invite me, I'll see if I can replicate what I did before

HN are OP same as FC.

[Raffa]

Hive Nodes are like Ravener Tunnels. If you use them properly and situationally, then they are broken.

In the next patch they will regenerate hp very slowly, which is perfectly fine as they can't be repaired

I repaired Fear's in a 3v3 with scouts.

[Torpid]

Ok so we all agree that they are over-performing then, so what can be done about them, do you agree with my changes? Try to add to the solution here guys rather than just saying Dat's OP!

Incidentally, Raffa, would you say the same as you say about nodes with turrets, that is, "If you use them properly and situationally, then they are broken."

[Rataxas]

Ok so we all agree that they are over-performing then, so what can be done about them, do you agree with my changes? Try to add to the solution here guys rather than just saying Dat's OP!

Incidentally, Raffa, would you say the same as you say about nodes with turrets, that is, "If you use them properly and situationally, then they are broken."

Well they are OP same way as FC , so if you want nerf them nerf FC also. HN gives you 80% less dmg from range, FC with Storm shield got 85% around i think. If you say HN are OP you need to agree about FC. Wont mention that he got all gears what he need , buble , knock back , power sword , lol hammer, power fist... and more more , and if that is not enough get a terminetor armor with 2500 hp and ability that burns everything !

HN solution for me is simple :

- 150/20
- no dmg aura for enemy ( nids act do already great dmg )
- no slowing down aura for enemy ( yeah combined that with spermagaunts)
- 80% dmg reduction is to high ( i think ) change on 50% still will be good enough and guy will have feeling against 2 nids army not only 1.

or :

- 100/10 + upgrade for 50/15
- vanila HN : 30% less dmg from range
- 1 upgrade - 60% less dmg from range , no counter parts for any melee units.
- 2 upgrade - 30% less dmg from range , but will slow down any melee units in aura and do 2 HP Heavy Melee dmg every second for the duration
- You can buy 1 upgrade for HN , thats means you need to build second one for another upgrade.

and to both ideas :

- auto repair for 20 reg when HN is off
- hard cap for 2 ( maybe 3 ? )

[Ace of Swords]

http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Elite/Defend


it's 50% not 80% beside it's IMPOSSIBLE to remove a nid hive node from your powerfarm, doesn't matter if they push it in t1 or t2, soon or later they will push you off and once the node is up it's UNCOUNTERABLE.

[Kvek]

http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Elite/Defend


it's 50% not 80% beside it's IMPOSSIBLE to remove a nid hive node from your powerfarm, doesn't matter if they push it in t1 or t2, soon or later they will push you off and once the node is up it's UNCOUNTERABLE.

1 node isn't that hard, build 2 at your enemy power farm.cloud lasts 25 secs and cooldown is 60 sec that means he has 10 secs (Impossible) to destroy it...

Uploaded a game on GR you should watch it.

Everytime i played RA i just won even if i got bashed and had no map control,, the only thing you need is (calderis refinery) lock genfarm. with hormas can points while he tries to defend power farm (impossible) and then if possible base-lock him. btw the hive node will take almost no damage from spewer+noise marines combined... (if has cloud on)

[Kvek]

Rataxas
the shield slows the FC a lot, drains his energy. and only gives 50% reduction which isn't OP
you can't deal with it so u call it OP -Rataxas

[Manisz]

the shield slows the FC a lot

35%

and only gives 50% reduction which isn't OP

So 35% is a lot, while 50% (HALF!) is not a big deal ? It could root him in place and it would be still op. We are talking about 50% dmg reduction on mostly heavy armor (takes only 67% from piercing_pvp). Plus he gets passive 20% ranged dmg reduction. Fc with a shield is basically walking Hive Node. Not to mention, that ALL units (including allies) in range get that fancy aura.

you can't deal with it so u call it OP

Please show me how You deal with that as IG.

As for HN I agree, it should be nerfed. Spore Cloud lasts too long and has too short cd. Dmg reduction should be lowered, slow and damaging aura completely removed and its energy cost increased to 30. Add some build time perhaps.

[Kvek]

Manisz doesn't it slow the FC ? huh ?

[Manisz]

It does, by 35% as I stated above. And ?

[Kvek]

... sent stomp, cata blast, kite him etc...

[Ace of Swords]

If you have a problem with the FC's stormshield with IG then you'll not be able to get out of your base if you get a node near your base. For sure if the FC is pouring all his energy into it he wont do anything and again, for sure the stormshield doesn't last 25 seconds like the node does, doesn't slow enemy units nor damage them while grating an 80% damage reduction.

[Manisz]

@Kvek

Great, You just countered single Fc with your entire army and it took good amount of time. Now imagine Fc brought his spehs mahreens to the fight. 2x tac, 1x scout and 1x hbd. Aditionally, let's assume he is not an idiot, and he won't try to chase your forces with Fc, because HE DOESN'T HAVE TO. All he needs to do is sit there and give aura to his (now invinvcible) soldiers who are wtfpwning Your infantry.

@Ace

If you have a problem with the FC's stormshield with IG then you'll not be able to get out of your base if you get a node near your base.

That's true, where did I say that HN is not a problem ?

For sure if the FC is pouring all his energy into it he wont do anything and again, for sure the stormshield doesn't last 25 seconds (...)

He doesn't have to do anything else. But You are right, it doesn't last 25 seconds, actually it lasts for 27 seconds at lvl 1.

So You are saying that shield is ok because it

doesn't slow enemy units nor damage them while grating an 80% damage reduction.

but that is COMPLETELTY IRRELEVANT because IG is a ranged army and You don't want to get close. Ranged dmg reduction is enough to make 100% of Your army useless.

[Raffa]

Great, You just countered single Fc with your entire army and it took good amount of time. Now imagine Fc brought his spehs mahreens to the fight. 2x tac, 1x scout and 1x hbd. Aditionally, let's assume he is not an idiot, and he won't try to chase your forces with Fc, because HE DOESN'T HAVE TO. All he needs to do is sit there and give aura to his (now invinvcible) soldiers who are wtfpwning Your infantry.

In another game I play we use the term "anti-meta", and this is exactly what the stormshield is: an anti-meta weapon. Its purpose is not to go out and kill stuff but to counter the popular meta builds (and the meta of this game has shifted hugely towards ranged combat, because almost all people don't have the judgement/skill/balls to run a melee army, or more likely all 3).

Frankly if you haven't bothered to give some variety to your army by ignoring melee altogether then you're leaving yourself vulnerable to this kind of wargear: I have no sympathy for you here. It's like going for all-out melee in T1 against a tooled-up warboss. It's just stupid.

However Hive Nodes are an issue as they counter their counters, which is something I'm not a fan of.

[Ace of Swords]

The shield is simply weaker because of:

-Weaker effect
-SLows your whole army making them an easy pick for stomp and catas/hero
-Stops your Fc from using battlecry
-forces your FC to stay behind the lines instead of tiyng up stuff.

It's really simple as that.

Also it does last 25 seconds BUT (Fc has 100 energy, shield drains 4/sec), if we assume that the FC regens 1 energy/sec it will take 1 min and 40 seconds to be able to use that buff for another 25 seconds while the node has a standard CD of 1 min, plus IF i remember corretly, so im not 100% sure, when the FC is focused by ranged fire while he has that effect on the energy drains faster.

[Torpid]

Not to mention in a real game blobbing up your entire army around your FC and then making then move extra slow is somewhat redundant. Sentinels are mobile, they just kill your scouts and IG takes all map control. I've tried said tactic (2x tacs+ devs + 2x scouts w/ shield) vs noob IG players and lost miserably (and don't pretend I don't how to use a stormshield >_>), then reverted back to 2,1,1,1 and won easily... Stormshield is fine. It's best usage is actually with a 2,1,1,1 build.

[Caeltos]

I don't understand the connection between Hive Node or Force Commander Shield thing, at all.

[Ace of Swords]

Similar effect, but the hive node is used to base lock, once you push the player even ONCE doesn't matter which tier you can just either baselock him or completely control his power, even artillerty won't do anything under the HN, throw grenades? lol 0 damage.

And of course, melee is out of question.

[Kvek]

u need _ability damage. exam immolate
(warlocks)

[Kvek]

They are heavy infantry so it slows em but shouldn't (i think)
btw yeah that's it but there some even more fucked up shits you can do with it i love to do 2x hive node=25 secs cloud 60 sec cooldown when one cloud is gone activate the second one..
Almost impossible to destroy