What next people?

[Cheah18]

I figured it would be useful to actually have a thread to centralise what people think the needs of certain races are. Obviously Caeltos and co. will have their ideas for going forward but seeing as people tend to propose stuff on the forum it would be good to get a feel for what we collectively feel the next step should be with regards to the mod and improving balance. The idea is that with this we can direct and streamline future suggestions and stuff.

Try not to be too specific as that is for the threads that will result from this one hopefully.

[Torpid]

Nerf DD and TG and DOM and scouts too probably.

Fix the mekboy turret and remove the silly upgrade on the IG one.

[Aertes]

New heroes for the Grey Knight army that provide different ways to play them. Their own slot to house them instead of sharing the Space Marine's could be useful too.

An army/character choice screen that shows the character and race you will play with would be a visual improvement.

[Swift]

New heroes for the Grey Knight army that provide different ways to play them. Their own slot to house them instead of sharing the Space Marine's could be useful too.

An army/character choice screen that shows the character and race you will play with would be a visual improvement.

Already have the UI guy working on that.

[ChrisNihilus]

Yesterday the High Lord and Master of this mod hinted about a big rework on Tyranids for the next patch.

Don't know if it was serious.
It's always hard to tell with him.

[BaptismByLoli]

Yesterday the High Lord and Master of this mod hinted about a big rework on Tyranids for the next patch.

Don't know if it was serious.
It's always hard to tell with him.

SMA... It is coming... You can run but you can never hide from the wrath of SMA

[Torpid]

I actually genuinely want to see the SMA.

[Swift]

SMA?

[Ar-Aamon]

Spore Mine Alpha

[Swift]

Oh right. Would be indeed a scary foe to face.

[Bahamut]

DD and needs a major nerf, TG a minor one. I think Battlewaggon also needs some minor nerfing

i Still think weirdboy and painboy are OP and i think chaos now is has absolutely no weak spots, but that hasn't been an issue yet... I just wish havocs weren't so freaking strong

[HandSome SoddiNg]

DD and needs a major nerf, TG a minor one. I think Battlewaggon also needs some minor nerfing

i Still think weirdboy and painboy are OP and i think chaos now is has absolutely no weak spots, but that hasn't been an issue yet... I just wish havocs weren't so freaking strong

Painboy not much really,Unstable field injection .Weirdy all tha'ts left is Warpath boasting Armies speed. BW yup,that deff rola on retreat kills ,Havocs strong? their 2nd best to IG HWT.

[saltychipmunk]

i think the scouts need to have their movement speed brought in line with other light infantry when they get the sniper rifle upgrade.

I say this because without upgrades scouts need that speed to do anything. However their faster than average movement speed paired with their higher than most hp per model (for a sniper squad) results in a unit that far too difficult to counter using established counters. counters i might add that are much more effective vs other snipers.

right now in most match ups i play , double scout snipers is almost always a no-brainer choice. This is especially true in matchups with heavy infantry , but I have started seeing them being used vs pretty much every army (with exception of some nid bos and some ig bos).

I will concede that rangers technically get fleet of foot , however fleet is not a constant movement speed buff, and has its own accuracy downside to compensate. This isn't even taking into account that the rangers must buy an upgrade to get the fleet.

[RagingJenni]

I might be a stupid hipster, but I really don't have any balance complains in regards to the mod.

I mean I fucking hate Chaos, but I've always done that.

[Torpid]

i think the scouts need to have their movement speed brought in line with other light infantry when they get the sniper rifle upgrade.

I agree. I think scouts are too good right now. They've surpassed ASM to be the best overall t1 unit in the game in my books.

[Swift]

i think the scouts need to have their movement speed brought in line with other light infantry when they get the sniper rifle upgrade.

I agree. I think scouts are too good right now. They've surpassed ASM to be the best overall t1 unit in the game in my books.

Can't we just nerf SM and be done with it?

Yeah, since I play Chaos against SM everytime I 1v1 (because apparently there is no variety to DoW) the snipers really ruin my day. I get the vestments to tie one up, but there is often another just bleeding my CSM. Then they run when the tics give chase and I cannot hit them.

[Ace of Swords]

sure, but then nerf havocs and buff devastators and ASM so that they can actually solo AC tics.

[Dark Riku]

We should nerf SM some more so that no-one ever plays them.
Good idea.

[saltychipmunk]

well the problem with scout snipers right now is that they are so much better then other snipers at their roll to the point where one can use them for pretty much anything.

I haven't purchased an asm or a devastator in over 70 consecutive sm games just because scouts snipers are that good.
the problem is 100% the fact that they are so good at running away without taking model losses.

it doesnt even seem to matter that they technically don't do efficient dps vs non heavy infantry.

2 snipers will pretty much force retreat any 5 -6 model infantry squad in the game with 45 - 70 req in model losses from just one volley.

at-least with rangers you could rush the position and inflict a model loss on them before they slip away.

This isnt even taking into account that you upgrade existing squads to be snipers for the same price as buying an entire new unit. I cant even begin to tell you how much better eldar would be in applicable matchups if you didn't have to buy those first few squads to hold the field until you can buy 2 rangers.

[Ace of Swords]

well the problem with scout snipers right now is that they are so much better then other snipers

you must be fucking kidding me.

[saltychipmunk]

well the problem with scout snipers right now is that they are so much better then other snipers

you must be fucking kidding me.

think about it before you open your mouth. i am well aware that scouts fire much slower than rangers.

1 scouts have more hp per model than rangers
2 scouts can get a sarge that not only detects/ has grenade but also makes the squad hp double that of rangers.
3 scouts can be upgraded , that means you dont waste any population on filler units if you just wanted snipers.

any sm can go 1 tac 2 scout to get the two snipers. that leaves a full squads worth of pop free to do whatever you please with, try doing that with eldar. what one banshee? one guardian .. yeah good luck with that shit. No you would need to spend alot more population to hold map or just sacrifice map .. or get alot of UPKEEP in t1.

4 scouts get an energy independent base speed advantage that enables them to out run chasing units, stop , set up, fire and then run away again. Rangers at minimum would need to buy their upgrade to get fleet, and even then would have to wait for it to wear off to shoot again.

5 unlike the rangers upgrade which is nearly mandatory , the scout infiltration is optional far more often.... meaning greater efficiency.

6 Vindi assassin is t2 . so he can eat a Popsicle as far as i am concerned

So scouts have more hp, have a base speed that is faster than most infantry, can get a sarge making them much harder to kill, is an upgrade to a base squad most people get anyway and you really think im shitting you when i say they are the best?

Really, from you of all people? really?

[Swift]

They are valid points, but you forget that the upgrade for rangers is a measly 50/10 (I think), which gives the option of long reaching (we are talking out of LOS) knockback and area infiltration, to the point that your entire force is infiltrated for a very long time in that large AOE.

Now whilst Scout kiting is annoying, the Rangers are by far better as they are very mobile, can infiltrate for extended periods of time, they do more damage, have that area infiltration and can knockback. Scouts are quick and cause a lot of bleed, but a well microed pair of Rangers destroys a opponent, a well microed pair of scouts leaves them bleeding, but not defeated.

Can we just nerf SM and be done with it

Don't worry, I wasn't that serious SM fanboys.

[Dark Riku]

think about it before you open your mouth.

Priceless! XD

Try not to waste your time Ace ^^

[Ace of Swords]

Im gonna quote what I've wrote sometime ago since im not gonna waste anymore time with retarded statements, AND YOU need to think before you spout some extremely stupid shit, have you even tought whats the cost of getting a sarge? You don't even fucking get an infiltration without purchasing a separate upgrade.

And a single ranger is still gonna beat the shit out of a fully upgraded scout squad.

scout snipers cost almost as twice power as the rangers + pathfinder gear to be able to field the same stuff, and that is infiltration + detection, they also have less sight range aswell as for each shot the snipers can fire, and so take down 1 ranger model you can fire twice and that means 2 scout kills.

Sniper scouts are PURE SUICIDE vs rangers, there is never, ever a reason to get them in the MU, and what you want to do as eldar if you spot double or triple snipers is to get 2 rangers of your own, and those will beat 2 & 3 scout snipers no matter what.

And the same goes for any 1v1 MU, you are just asking to get raped by literally everything , the only reason to ever want 1 or 2 scout snipers is against a PC or in some really particular cases in SM mirrors, but even then the PC goes double khorne and if you are anything but FC it's game over.

[saltychipmunk]

Well at-least this time you gave me a response i can sink my teeth into , i thank you for that.

Also , i am trying to figure out the situation in which you are placing these units in. In a straight up sniper battle?
Sure line them up ye napoleon style and the rangers will win because of the faster fire rate and the longer detect range.

in practice however, if you have two rangers and two scouts , all one needs to do is trick the other party into shooting at something that can take the hits.

something like a tactical marine squad , which can take 2 ranger shots. It doesnt matter if the rangers can fire 6 seconds faster than the scouts. fire rate is removed from the equation if the battle only lasts one volly.

trick the rangers into hitting a hero or tacs. shoot the rangers one ranger model left, ranger retreat.
trick scouts into hitting hero or guardians , ranger shoot scouts , one model left ( or 2 -3 ) sm player retreats.

you don't have to play invisible marco polo to hunt and kill snipers. You can just bleed them.

at that point its down to who is better at tricking the other. Ive won plenty of match ups with two sniper scouts vs two rangers, its not suicide , the eldar player was probably just better at using snipers.

[Ace of Swords]

That post shows your ignorance on the matter at a decent skill level, I bet you didn't even know that rangers have a bigger sight range, do you know what that means?

No you don't, rangers fire from the FoW meaning that all you see is the projectile but before you can spot them they will have repositioned, without even counting the fact you will need a sarge to do this meaning you will get WL rushed in no time in a 1v1, especially cos the eldar player can be all over the map with FoF and gates, plus he drops a node + 2 generators instantly into the game while the SM has to wait alot, and no you can't play without ASM and shotgun scouts.

And what this means? This means that the rangers keep hitting your tacts/asm or bleeding scouts without punishment also this statement shows your skill level well

trick the rangers into hitting a hero or tacs. shoot the rangers one ranger model left, ranger retreat.

ù

Like, seriously? why would you retreat the rangers? you have a faster fire rate WHICH MATTERS, YOU CAN FIRE AGAIN BEFORE RETREATING, KILLING OFF THE SCOUT SQUAD WHILE GETTING AWAY WITH YOUR RANGERS, you have 0 reasons to retreat a ranger squad when your opponent can fire once every 12 seconds they will do 0 DPS to you only a very low level player that panics would do that.

And again, you probably didn't know this either, but rangers will ALWAYS get the first shot in, no matter what, unless the eldar player is afk.

And the same goes for everyone else, unlike rangers that have a long range shotgun blast any chaos/nid/ig/gk/ork player just needs to brute force through your army since scouts have a downtime of 12 seconds, and even then their damage per shot isn't enough to force off a squad or hero.

But I bet all your experience comes from team games, doesn't it?

[ChrisNihilus]

I think Battlewaggon also needs some minor nerfing

I think Battlewagon is the worst choise in game design i've ever seen.
It's a bad unit for the game and i wouldn't mind to see reworked completely or replaced by a better one.

The Battlewagon have 2 main "perks" that are completely out of context.
This game don't have the pathing codes to have this kind of unit, and it shouldn't.
Battlewagon are the exact opposite of every other vehicle in the game, and it's just wrong on so many levels.

Run over units? Instakilling? This is not Carmageddon for **** ****!

Second, it become stronger by having more units inside, and that simply take away action from the game.
Chimeras make sense. A guardsmen unit that fire from inside a vehicle. Ok.
Orks put all the army in one and these units don't partecipate. It doesn't matter what they are. They just active turrets.
Now the most beautifully numerous, noisy and awesome to see army became a single entity. Well done.

I hate the Battlewagon. It's so stupid it makes me angry.
It belong to other games, not here.

You can even replace it with the looted-Emperor and i will not complain.

[Swift]

This is a discussion about snipers, not a way of you two sniping at each other.

Whilst Ace has the better point the argument is futile. This thread is about what next, the evolution of the mod. If you want to elaborate please make a thread in Random Shit called Sniper Wars, but for now can we keep it to evolving what we have to poking at someone because they believe Scouts are inferior/superior.

You can even replace it with the looted-Emperor and i will not complain.

Komplain? Oo wud komplain abart dat? Dat wud be grate! Letz see ooz lauffin now squishies!

[ChrisNihilus]

[Cheah18]

I'm glad people liked my thread