Daemons for everyone!

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

In the new tabletop edition now any psyker from any army can summon now daemons.

Isn't this a fluffrape? Loyalists summoning daemons? A Eldar Warlock/Farseer summoning Daemonnettes?

Are we gonna have this on ELITE, Caeltos?

[Caeltos]

What the actual fuck?

[Toilailee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAlEmoRews

[Forestradio]

/Caeltos makes every race able to summon daemons
/DoW2 metagame resembles something like this --> http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2012 ... hicken.jpg

[Ace of Swords]

Well, the lastest edition ally system shitted over the fluff already so...

[Dark Riku]

If you think about it it isn't that unfluffy. Demons finding their way to the material realms trough psychers is a thing.
curious psychers, turning traitors, etc. The unfluffy part is that they act under control of the player that summoned them I guess.

I haven't done enough 7th edition yet to reach a verdict. But from what I can tell it's kinda hard and random to summon Demons.
Let alone get the right psychic powers. And non-Chaos armies will almost always suffer from perils in the warp when trying to summon.

[Dalakh]

Summoning deamon through psykers ok. But do you seriously see an eldar summoning any kind of deamon willingly to serve them ? don't think so, even dark eldars wouldn't do that.

[Torpid]

Can't wait to see Farseers flinging Daemonettes at Dark Eldar.

[Swift]

But isn't 7th edition just 6th edition without restrictions?

[David-CZ]

Summoning deamon through psykers ok. But do you seriously see an eldar summoning any kind of deamon willingly to serve them ? don't think so, even dark eldars wouldn't do that.

Contacting Slaanesh directly like this is nonsense. For Eldar it should be possible, but it'll never happen. Dark Eldar don't use psychic abilities at all. One has to wonder what the idea behind all of this is.

[Symetric]

If you really WANT to bow down the fluff you could say "they just opened a warpgate and instead of lunching the enemy, some deamons come out". For my part, im grateful they were smart enough to cut that for grey knights xD

[BaptismByLoli]

Black Templars? Exorcist?

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[Superhooper01]

Well im conflicted on this news. Chaos summing daemons is like swift pointing out flaws but eldar... well i guess they could summon them and simply let them lose in a losing battle or use them as founder and there are creatures and beings in the warp apart from daemons so i can see them using them for their own means. But what Riku said is right the risk of the servants turning on their master would be great especially chaos daemons no way. Does that mean weird-boys for orks can summon daemons? i know the amount of daemonic incursions is on the increase and chaos is at it strongest sort of but still not liking this, what next tyranids zoanthrope blasting out nurglings and orks having green bloodletters....

[Swift]

Well im conflicted on this news. Chaos summing daemons is like wearing a hat on a windy day

But surely wearing a hat on a windy day is a stupid idea, and Chaos summoning daemons is a regular occurence. Please rephrase this. :/

[Superhooper01]

That better swift:p

[Swift]

Chaos summing daemons is like swift pointing out flaws

You flatter me

[Barrogh]

If you think about it it isn't that unfluffy. Demons finding their way to the material realms trough psychers is a thing.
curious psychers, turning traitors, etc. The unfluffy part is that they act under control of the player that summoned them I guess.

Pretty much. If you handwave summoning as being random, psyker as not controlling himself and demons as not obeying, but just it-just-happened attacking right target, well... That's indeed a stretch for some armies.

And non-Chaos armies will almost always suffer from perils in the warp when trying to summon.

Only Chaos Daemons peril normally when using malefic daemonology, not CSM or any other chaos faction IIRC.

One has to wonder what the idea behind all of this is.

GW's desire to sell more minis. Even selling a whole bunch of daemon minis to numerous SM players, for example. Unbound armies serve exactly the same purpose.

But isn't 7th edition just 6th edition without restrictions?

Not exactly, but differences aren't too numerous. Most important changes can be found here.

Can't wait to see Farseers flinging Daemonettes at Dark Eldar.

Well, daemonette-flinging these days typically done by so-called (by some) Obamastar which is basically Tzeenchian daemon spamming (Fateweaver, 4 x Heralds, then horrors or whatever) that provides 30-something mastery levels combined.
Hell, even a friend of mine managed to bash such list together and used it recently in some club game.

[ChrisNihilus]

They could avoid all this fluff raping while still selling miniatures changing what you can actually summoning, or at least giving you an option.

I hope players will see the opportunity of using the "count as" rule, like, for Eldar, summon harlequins to use as demonettes and be possessed by an Avatar to use as greater demon.

[Swift]

GW is just going downhill.

[Barrogh]

They could avoid all this fluff raping while still selling miniatures changing what you can actually summoning, or at least giving you an option.

I hope players will see the opportunity of using the "count as" rule, like, for Eldar, summon harlequins to use as demonettes and be possessed by an Avatar to use as greater demon.

Maybe they had excessive stock of Daemons that aren't DPs or screamers

I agree with the rest, especially on "counts as" part. Although before warp creatures that aren't typical daemons were rarely mentioned, so even if everyone can now call forth their empyreal partons every saturday, people would still call fluff rape. I mean, what do you mean Warp isn't cesspit of malevolent thought anymore?
Besides, I don't think GW could do much. They either would have to develop unique summons for everyone (meaning that they would have to release new models, write new rules...), or point people to that very "counts as" rule - which basically goes without saying, as GW these days like to point out how it's player's game, player's rules and the like - but then logic behind picking C:CD book for rules reference would be lost.

But yeah, I can see the possibility for them to create some book with summons for every faction to use it instead of C:CD. More stuff to sell, right?..

GW is just going downhill.

Perhaps. But maybe that means they will have to digitalize more. For us that means, well, lose some, gain some...

P.S. This post is officially a mess.

[Dark Riku]

P.S. This post is officially a mess.

LIke the GW's rules are :/
Only way to properly play is with 1 Codex and 1 "old" FoC. The rest is just bullshit ontop of bullshit.
Play apocalypse, fine. Don't play apocc in normal 1500-2000 point games pls. (or tourneys)

[Barrogh]

P.S. This post is officially a mess.

LIke the GW's rules are :/
Only way to properly play is with 1 Codex and 1 "old" FoC. The rest is just bullshit ontop of bullshit.
Play apocalypse, fine. Don't play apocc in normal 1500-2000 point games pls. (or tourneys)

As far as I can tell, setting apart Apoc and normal games is what they did pretty clearly. Unlike some other rules here and there...

If you mean that they allow superheavy in normal games now (rule zero aside), then I can tell you from firsthand experience that not all of them are broken and/or undercosted. Not a problem most of the time unless you field Revenants and similar stuff. But then again, broken stuff is everywhere and introduction of SH did nothing to that. They are hardly worse than something like 2+++ (from "normal" codexes) were.

The real problem with them comes from versatility of some of them and the fact that opponent still have to come up with balanced list instead of having an option to switch to AA list or A-SH list. Some of these problems could be solved by introducing drafting. But this is up to us really.

Everything that isn't tournament-related, rule zero and home ruling all the way. CBA to rely on GW when I'm playing at home. Anyways, here at my place we've solved the issue by settling general ideas of lists we're about to bring in advance. Yeah, I know.