A throw out of ideas for GK

[Vapor]

Just throwing an idea out there. If single target dps is a problem, how about granting a purge-like effect (increases damage taken by 20-25% or so) to an existing ability? Say SS energy burst or Purgation slow?

[saltychipmunk]

one of the more perplexing things is that in the last update a bunch of the gk libbies damage abilites were removed for yet more defensive abilities
(like the BC battle cry and staff weren't enough defense)

i really miss the soft doom ability the libby was granted. especially since the libby himself is too slow , bulky and doesnt do enough melee damage to really be that useful in melee... (infact he is a detriment since his model size fucks with the path finding of purifiers and interceptors in the same way the chaoslord , brother commander warboss and hive tyrannt fuck with the path finding of melee units)

atleast with the doom ability i could put him on ranged stance and he could still contribute damage wise with the doom/ smite abilities without getting in the way.

but hey the new ability is decent too.


(edit) nevermind the rhino is not good av unit its dps can be out repaired by 2 guardians on a prism and it suffers from that terrible accuracy ai and to top it all off its low sight radius and long ass chargeup time on the shot makes this a pretty weak av unit that most people have to MAKE work with higher skilled play rather it just working. i give up on gk

[Element]

Just throwing an idea out there. If single target dps is a problem, how about granting a purge-like effect (increases damage taken by 20-25% or so) to an existing ability? Say SS energy burst or Purgation slow

That'd be a bit too much.. the energy burst already drains enery and slows down targets, enabling it to increase damage taken by 25% would be over kill.. I do want their ranged Damage buffed to compensate 70 power worth of investment seeing they cost as much as sternguard and Tzeentch Marines to reach full potential but don't come in close to comparison with the damage that those 2 units can do; I'd like their damage to be at least in the ball park of what they're doing, not as much but certainly respectable enough damage for 70 power but 20-25% is a bit too much (sadly)

one of the more perplexing things is that in the last update a bunch of the gk libbies damage abilites were removed for yet more defensive abilities
(like the BC battle cry and staff weren't enough defense)

i really miss the soft doom ability the libby was granted. especially since the libby himself is too slow , bulky and doesnt do enough melee damage to really be that useful in melee... (infact he is a detriment since his model size fucks with the path finding of purifiers and interceptors in the same way the chaoslord , brother commander warboss and hive tyrannt fuck with the path finding of melee units)

atleast with the doom ability i could put him on ranged stance and he could still contribute damage wise with the doom/ smite abilities without getting in the way.

but hey the new ability is decent too.


(edit) nevermind the rhino is not good av unit its dps can be out repaired by 2 guardians on a prism and it suffers from that terrible accuracy ai and to top it all off its low sight radius and long ass chargeup time on the shot makes this a pretty weak av unit that most people have to MAKE work with higher skilled play rather it just working. i give up on gk

Ehh don't give up, been playing them from the "Good Old days" and they have come a long ways since the beginning and IMO, they are almost there; but yea the A.V. platform for that tank sure isn't the greatest but to an extent I would say that it should be intended to work like that. It shouldn't be as a good as a predator tank able to fire well on the move with its lascannon because even with a 6s reload on the rhino L.C. as opposed to 3 on a predator tank, at T2 that would be game breaking and cause a ton of bleed on your opponent given its splash damage to targets that it successfully hits anyways. It's not a hard counter to A.V. but not a soft counter to A.V. either this unit truly is the A.V. unit that sits in the middle, purgation psycannons aremiddl/hard A.V. the V.A. is middle/Hard A.V. counter not completely the best hard counter given his reload and non ability to snare, but steady Shot makes puts him in this Grey area so to speak. Soft A.V. is psycannon on strkes. That's why I suggested in my first post that purgation are given the Conversion Beamer that is a secondary T2 upgrade that acts like a L.C. as a real Hard counter to A.V. with a snare. in addition to having the option to psycannons dependant on how the player wants to go about their A.V. on the move or set up. In addition that is also why I suggested giving the rhino the ability to reinforce units that aren't terminator varient in T3 to make it scale better into T3, because their is no Predator Tank like unit in the GK faction and this is the closest thing to it, therefore I think it would be best that it scales differently than your standard rhino. I mean it already isn't seeing that it is avaialable in T1, gets a L.C. option in T2 and doesn't reinforce but usually makes it to T3 proving itself to be a vital unit throughout the game if one can utilize its full effectiveness throughout the tiers. By enabling it to reinforce in T3 this should solidify its holding in T3. Not as a good as a Predator Tank, but better than your standard rhino.

On a side note, GK terminator/paladin incinerators are still stupidly broken, it's not just their damage output (which was reduced) or their glitched firing rate (huge AoE burst damage) it's just that the whole concept of a heavy flamer on a beastly power/heavy melee unit is completely stupid. I'd actually advocate for them to be removed completely.

I'd honestly be inclined to agree with Forest here, this because as of now this is the only race with both terminator varients being capable of both ranged and melee. This gives them a bit too much chasing power and makes them to well rounded. However if that is done huge changes would need to be made. Lightning claw terminators still shred both of these terminator varients to pieces so inorder to compensate for that I'd only imagine

1. GK Terminators would lose their halberds and become a ranged unit primarily using their bolters in similiar fashion as the ranged varient terminators, and they could then be given the ability to take up the psycannon or incinerator upgrades

and

2. GK paladins would be given the option of taking halberds but the damage on those halberds would need to be increased to that of lightning claw levels in similiar fashion as of getting assault terminators and being granted the option to upgrade their hammers to become lightning claws

Edit*
What I also realized this would do is make it so that gk players dont feel in a rush for them because they are not as well rounded and blatantly<<<<<<< better than the units in lower tiers notably purifiers, interceptors, and strikes,

[saltychipmunk]

The sad thing is that a bunch of these units would become perfectly viable if the method in which they do damage was changed to something more attractive.

the main issue with the las rhino is the charge up time on the las cannon. Because that charge up , it is very easy to bug it out by moving just out side its sight radius at which point it will either cancel firing and/or switch to another target that is not a tank. if it just didn't have that long charge up , its useability would be so much better.

if psi cannons could fire on the move and/or did their damage in more of a burst rather than consistently over time they would be much better at delivering their intended damage they would be more attractive.

even the base attack vector for strikes is terrible. sure on paper they only do slightly less damage than tactical marine.
But because they do that damage in a consistent shoot every second thing (rather than the few round bursts that tacs and csm do) that ranged dps feels weak.

infact it feels like less damage than a single ist squad despite the fact that on paper the ist squad should be doing less.

I wonder what would happen if Cael changed the SS bolters so that they do the few round bursts like the tacs and csm. I am willing to bet they would perform better.