Chaos response to Assault Marines/Raptors

[ChrisNihilus]

I play Chaos Lord.
Standard openings; CSM into Cultists or double CSM.

I usually know what my opponent is building in Tier 1.5, expecially if he is Space Marine or Chaos.
Most of the time and when in doubt, i go for Havocs, that are good, or Raptor if I know he is building Suppression Teams.

What to build when i know he is going for Jump Troops and i want to take advantage of that?
I tried different answers, but nothing really convince me for now.

inb4: Yes, I have Psychic Powers and can read minds thousands of miles across.

[BaptismByLoli]

Usually I get a quick Bloodletter vs SM or Chaos. Works wonders.

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[Nurland]

Melee heretics do well against Faptors/ASM esp with AC(s).

[Crewfinity]

The chaos lord himself also counters them pretty well through all stages of the game, just keep him next to your havocs. He's both knockback and suppression immune, so he gives no fucks when they jump, he can start whaling on them with his power melee sword, and kill the weak to disrupt them so that your heretics can go to town.

He gets even better in T2, when you can get the giant mace. Although pricey, it can counter them even better than the lightning claws, especially if you have a squad like khorne marines to follow up with

[Ace of Swords]

AC tics + sword of flame, plague sword or the default CL.

[Bahamut]

plague sword alone makes the SM regreat getting ASMs, specially with those zombies being so retarded strong they can also jump and disrupt

[Nurland]

Yah. Babysitting havocs with CL is pretty useful. When the jump squad jumps in just position the CL correctly, use KTW and let the gang rape beging. It should remind you of Snow White getting it from all the 7 dwarves at the same time.

When it comes to Claws vs Maul the stun is great it also throws the squad all over the place. The Claws on the other hand leave the squad lying seductively in a bunch right at your feet, waiting to be painted like on of your cadian girls by your stuff... BL, Kcsm, Tics, CL etc.

[Ace of Swords]

Yeah about the claws vs maul, that's dependant on the enemy commander, claws vs apo/tm and hammer vs FC, since the hammer can both stun the FC while he uses battlecry aswell as his assault terminators, giving an edge to your own LC termies.

[Commissar Vocaloid]

... and let the gang rape beging. It should remind you of Snow White getting it from all the 7 dwarves at the same time.

... what? I would never be reminded of that because I don't think I've ever had the thought. Also, bad analogy as there is only 1 CL to several jump squad units vs 7 dwarves to one usually innocent girl (clearly defiled in your corrupt mind lol).

On topic; Just be sure to time your KB on the CL correctly, as there is jump squad KB immunity for 5 seconds.

[ChrisNihilus]

7 dwarves

Do you mean the 7 Squats?

[Nurland]

What I meant was that the ASM/Faptors (snow white) will get ganged by your 1-2 tics, CL, Kcsm/BL (7 dwarves)

[BaptismByLoli]

I wonder if Slaaneshi Raptors fap...

But overall Chaos can easily handle 1 Jump Squad provided they have the right tools

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[Sub_Zero]

You have to always predict that jump (most players do it instantly once they've spotted your ranged units) and be ready to avoid it. With Khorne worship this become even easier. That speed boost allows you to dodge it quite easily.

Honestly I can't understand how you struggle vs these jump units as Chaos. 2x CSM (I use them without EW in T1) are perfectly capable of slaughtering ASM/Raptors. All you need is to overwhelm them in melee. If you play the kite game you do it wrong (pathetic damage will those jump units receive because they wear heavy armor and get the damage reduction for being in melee combat). 3 models are not going to send you flying, the chances are low. 2x strike squads, 2x CSM, 2x tacs (with kraken bolts activated) should always force melee. In the case with Chaos it is really safe because heretics are always here to draw the attention and suppress them.

But the easiest way to control jump units for every race that has a standard suppression team is the presence of one suppression team. Once you have it on the field you dictate your rules. Now these jump squads are obligated to jump on it. And you can forget about any tricks, just make sure you position it (your suppression team) behind your ranged units (2x csm) so you can damage the jump squad on approach and keep your heretics nearby the setup team. Of course there are exceptions and other complications but that is pretty much a basic knowledge how the scheme jump unit vs suppression unit works.

in T2 you can slaughter ASM/Raptors. 1 mark of tzeentch, 1 mark of khorne, something to stun those jump units (your CL) and you can end up wiping out those jump units without even retreating your havocs (stun is the best thing to nullify a jump squad and keep your suppression team on the field).

[ChrisNihilus]

I do not struggle at all in early game.

I want to take advantage, like when i build raptors against suppression teams.
My question is if there is a way to have the same advantage when the enemy is going to build jump troops and i know it.

My early game is usually very good for my level of play, but i start losing badly at half game, around the 10 minutes mark.
I like to take every advantage i can take, so I have more chance of survive Tier 2.

[ChrisNihilus]

So, do you all think that the best solution is to take another Heretic squad after 2xCSM?

How can i handle my needs for AV then? I fear these Heretics will set me back if i go for a long Tier 1 and buy Havocs too.
Or, after Heretics, i can go straight for Tier 2 and go for a Dread? If i don't have energy then Plague Marines are the only solution, but he doesn't go for Vehicles they are a waste, or a Tier 2 Havocs.

[Nurland]

Well getting AC(s) after the first t1,5 unit would be my advice when you are sure you will see a jump squad soon. Then maybe a jump squad of your own or NM or a havoc.