Patch 2.3.1 (Tentative balance changelog preview)

[Black Relic]

And Gk already do quite a number on nids early game in terms of bleed making horma become a capping unit until melee synapse hit the field.

........
no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zjFwV5 ... Oh8EUyUpIg

All I want through the change is to make melee dedicated squads not be pushed over by SS early engagement.

They aren't! Shees are way better at special attacks due to them having five models and SS having 3. Their special also tracks.

If you nerf SS melee skill you make them horrendous vs warriors, weaker melee commanders like the sorceror while also making them worse vs both sluggas and hormas because that single melee skill point is a big deal.

This was the replay I was using as reference. Ace didn't use his hormas in combat until t2 when they got their health buff because SS was owning them the first few times that Ace did use the hormas in combat. Not saying he didn't use them, but he waited until they weren't going to bleed him as much.

Shees get focused down so quickly like all other melee squad early engagement. Once they get in there SS will perform a special attack since they are moving (minus melee skill) and shees will then be forced off from dakka leaving Guardians wide open and vulnerable. Happens all the time to me.

Strike should be way better in melee vs ranged squads. I will always accept that. Now since they can get into melee with ranged squads quick via melee charge, I think they should have a harder time performing specials vs melee dedicated squads. Because right now since SS get a melee charge and can tie up range squads quicker, idk why I'd get purifiers except for their ability to be honest. Because I'd just go straight for a dread or libby.

[saltychipmunk]

you are forgetting that gk strikes are supposed to be the pre t1.5 counter melee squad. gk doesnt have cheap anti melee like sm has scout shotguns or chaos has heretics.

the ist sarges are too expensive for that , so the strikes need to be able to crush single melee squads. and even now they dont often do that unless said melee squad is weakened a bunch before melee.

as for the shees being focused, yeah shees get focused. they are a finisher , not a meat shield. you are supposed to use them to deter the enemy commander from moving on your guardians , or the strikes from moving in on your guardians. or to punish people who keep their units around way too long.

guardians in cover are very dangerous since they have 80 piercing dps between two squads. you only attack with banshees when you have a definitive advantage , like say channeling runes or you force off 1 or 2 units on the opponent's side.

and you get purifiers because they have 500 more base hp, 25% more damage per model AND in power melee, the best melee charge in the game and access to melee heavy. and then an ability.

and if you are going libby anyway, you have no excuse not to get purifiers for that sick ass synergy you get with the invisibility thing.

[Forestradio]

This was the replay I was using as reference. Ace didn't use his hormas in combat until t2 when they got their health buff because SS was owning them the first few times that Ace did use the hormas in combat. Not saying he didn't use them, but he waited until they weren't going to bleed him as much.

One replay does not a MU make and a HT or LA can use hormas in combat due to the threat of specials from the LA and HT not to mention flesh hook being a free model kill if used properly.

Shees get focused down so quickly like all other melee squad early engagement. Once they get in there SS will perform a special attack since they are moving (minus melee skill) and shees will then be forced off from dakka leaving Guardians wide open and vulnerable. Happens all the time to me.

Howling Banshees in melee charge state do not lose melee skill. No unit in melee charge loses melee skill. And SS instantly getting a special happens exactly 5 percent of the time against shees. Hardly all the time.

Because right now since SS get a melee charge and can tie up range squads quicker, idk why I'd get purifiers except for their ability to be honest. Because I'd just go straight for a dread or libby.

Purifiers have better special attacks, longer melee charge range, power melee, more health+hp regen in combat, more straight up damage, etc. They will always outshine SS in melee. Always.

Oh no, SS will then have a 14%/24% chance to perform a special attack instead of 15%/25%, what a horror!

Call it what you want it's a nerf.

If the choice is melee charge or 70 melee skill, I'd pick melee skill.

[Commissar Vocaloid]

Shees get focused down so quickly like all other melee squad early engagement. Once they get in there SS will perform a special attack since they are moving (minus melee skill) and shees will then be forced off from dakka leaving Guardians wide open and vulnerable. Happens all the time to me.

Howling Banshees in melee charge state do not lose melee skill. No unit in melee charge loses melee skill. And SS instantly getting a special happens exactly 5 percent of the time against shees. Hardly all the time.

I think what's being mistaken here is that units that are in movement lose melee skill, but I believe Forest is right in that this does not apply to a charge. It would only be regular movement.

Someone can confirm whether I'm right/wrong on that.

Edit: Bah, I'll just not be lazy and post it straight from the codex:

A moving model has its Melee Skill reduced by 2 points. While this only slightly increases susceptibility to special attacks for already overmatched models, it can allow a slightly underskilled model to tie, and grant a small chance of pulling off a special attack on a moving enemy trying to slip past. This -2 penalty does not apply to models that are in "Charging" mode (a movement state when a model is moving toward an enemy to engage in melee).

Knowledge is power brother.

[Cheah18]

I think the cost of the SS justifies all the proposed buffs.

[Arbit]

TBH I think you guys are undervaluing a charge attack. Engaging strikes in melee is going to be a lot more risky now that they will be able to chase retreating stuff down with decent FotM, then when they get out of charge range, go back to shooting at ~40 dps. They will be able to follow up special attacks a lot better, getting more hits in while their enemy is laid out on the ground. They'll be stronger against ranged units since they will be able to close the distance faster and take less damage with the help of a buffed WAtH.

Strike buffs would be fine... but I don't see anything addressing the ridonkulous burst fire capability of IST, which are actually getting a minor buff from the improved WAtH and cheaper and better plasma gun in T2 (the ability is pretty good IMO and can act like a short range AoE AWD, and can keep a unit suppressed for longer than normal when combined with a weapon that does courage damage like the strike squad incinerator).

[saltychipmunk]

ist need that burst because technically they only do 32 dps where as shoota boys do 35 and have 20% more model hp
and gus have 40 dps


and ist have notoriously specialized upgrades that do next to nothing for their general purpose role , where as units like gu get nades and a hp buff and shootas get a suppression and a huge dps boost.

[Crewfinity]

...don't the plasma guns give the ISTs suppression? As well as a damage buff? One that very arguably scales much better than the big shootas?

Doesn't the sergeant upgrade give them a grenade? As well as a health boost? As well as a detector?

Their upgrades seem pretty good to me, especially with the buffs that each one is set to get. Yeah it's expensive if you fully upgrade 3 squads, but the same holds true for triple shootas, which don't get plasma damage, and also don't synergize with the rhino that GK has, which gives the IST amazing kiting abilities with their burst fire and the high speed of the rhino.

[Tex]

Well said sir!

[saltychipmunk]

...don't the plasma guns give the ISTs suppression? As well as a damage buff? One that very arguably scales much better than the big shootas?

Doesn't the sergeant upgrade give them a grenade? As well as a health boost? As well as a detector?

Their upgrades seem pretty good to me, especially with the buffs that each one is set to get. Yeah it's expensive if you fully upgrade 3 squads, but the same holds true for triple shootas, which don't get plasma damage, and also don't synergize with the rhino that GK has, which gives the IST amazing kiting abilities with their burst fire and the high speed of the rhino.

plasma guns is t2 , i was really referring too the t1 upgrades , i will admit the *new* plasma guns are much much much more practical , but the current ones are garbage, the sarge doesnt give a heath boost , he just adds his own hp the the pool , but it wont really stop the ist from bleeding models crazy fast. and yes he is a detector , an attribute that loses all its value the moment you get 1 detector. (ie multi detectors are pointless)



the sarge gives them a fake grenade, it is a grenade in the same sense old unfaithful is a grenade . in that it really isnt one.

sure the *new* plasma guns are good for later scaling , the *current* ones are not

and while three shoota boys dont synergise with a rhino , they do synergize with the weird boy with his knock back orb of doom and warpath .

and the kiting you claim is really undone by the fact that the rhino gets stuck on everything (especially the freaking ist) and the ist don't all unload at the same time. (a sentinel's maneuverability , this tank does not have)

and we don't know exactly how powerful the new rhino will be , but the current one is piss easy to kill in t1.


while on the topic of the rhino , why bother getting ist sarges if you have a rhino? the whole point of the ist sarge and especially his grenade is so ist have some melee deterrent (same is true for the plasma gun ability, which is due to the short range of both abilities) and the rhino kind of exists to provide that counter melee safty anyway.

[Crewfinity]

IST are already very powerful in T1, I don't think they need to have upgrades to be a good unit there.

Grenade Launchers are very good when you need them. Obviously you don't want to get 3 of them but they seem about on par with GL tics.

Having multiple detectors can be very useful in many situations, such as hunting out backcapping scouts, going to backcap against IG with demo cats, etc.

It sounds like a lot of your complaints are being addressed with the new patch, with plasma guns and rhinos getting buffs. I already have a hell of a time killing that think as Orks, especially in T1. It has crazy high speed and usually is transporting 3 repair units, which can also be detectors. When microed well it can be very hard to counter, something which will be even more apparent when it has SHI armor.

IST don't need a high health pool like shootas, or a shield like guardians, or cheap reinforcement like IG. their gimmick is kiting. The better you get with microing them constantly, the more payoff you get. Giving them more health while keeping their high burst damage will make them way too good in dealing damage while minimizing their bleed.

Sarge upgrade is also getting buffed in the grenade damage, so that should help there some. Nobody is forcing you to get the upgrade, it's much more like a scout sergeant than shoota nob in that it's not necessary. It does make them more independent, so you don't need to keep the rhino around them, giving you more flexibility in your build. Not everybody goes 3 IST into a rhino, so being able to upgrade your starting squad to detection is pretty nice. Another use is giving your rhino some advace warning from ambushes such as holofield platforms, lootas, etc. Not to mention obvious uses such as keeping them with strikes and BC to detect things.

[saltychipmunk]

really? because all i do is jump a storm boy behind it (or any jump unit) (taking advantage that it gets stuck on them while they land) and then attack move the shoota blob in for the kill. it dies in seconds every time.

actually the jump unit path block strategy is how i kill sentinels too

At this point I think we are getting off topic when going into the details of unit roles , So i think I will just wait and see and let other topics be discussed .

[Crewfinity]

By the time they see stormboys they should already be packed up and headed out with it's speed 8. Pathing problems do not equate to bad unit design, and stormboys get melted by multiple IST bursts. Especially with changes its going to be very resistant to that, with melee resist and piercing resistance from SHI

[saltychipmunk]

By the time they see stormboys they should already be packed up and headed out with it's speed 8. Pathing problems do not equate to bad unit design, and stormboys get melted by multiple IST bursts. Especially with changes its going to be very resistant to that, with melee resist and piercing resistance from SHI

well getting the storm boys in safely is a job for the ork , never did i say victory would be handed too you , all that i know is that continuous pressure on the tank usually crushes it and one well place trap will absolutely obliterate it , it only has 600 ish hp.

[Ace of Swords]

How does a rhino even get jumped in his rear by T1 storms? lol

[Crewfinity]

In the same vein, a well microed rhino will never really have those issues, same as a sentinel. Traps can be avoided with good map awareness, and continuous pressure can be countered by kiting well, and punished by IST bursts and capping pressure with your other squads while he pursues the rhino. It has all the tools it will need to perform well with the update, so I'm a bit confused on what changes you want/envision for it?

^that all sounds kinda condescending and L2Pish, I really don't mean it like that. Haha just genuinely confused

[Ace of Swords]

Indeed, Ironically enough, jump troops aren't the problem for GKs at all, but very tanky single entities are, like a WB or painboy, in that case even with unit hopping in and out a rhino they will still get pushed back enough to make the ork regain map control.

[saltychipmunk]

well rhinos require good micro , so too does countering it with jump units. stormboys are probably the worst at it due to how they bleed.

but they can do it , i did a hide da boyz so they could get in rear jump range to kill a bunch of rhinos before. but the jump units as a solution is really only viable because of how much damage they can do to a rhino in melee. if all 5 members of a storm boy squad gets a hit in , that equates to a third of the rhinos hp.

with the proposed changes such a method wont be nearly as practical i admit that. And then it will boil down to super kitting your tanky hero to keep it busy while your other units burn down gen nodes.

[Arbit]

ist need that burst because technically they only do 32 dps where as shoota boys do 35 and have 20% more model hp
and gus have 40 dps

In addition to what crew said, let's keep in mind you're comparing a 210 req utility squad with 50 sight range and 5.5 move speed to the ork/eldar primary shooty units at 270 req apiece. 32 dps, concentrated in burst fire so they can take advantage of their natural speed and WAtH, is good for a 210 req unit. I do agree that their upgrades aren't as good as big shootas or battle equipment - if they were, they would be absurdly OP.

[Element]

Indeed, Ironically enough, jump troops aren't the problem for GKs at all, but very tanky single entities are, like a WB or painboy, in that case even with unit hopping in and out a rhino they will still get pushed back enough to make the ork regain map control.

I concur with Ace here, Jump troos have nothing to do with gk problems that exist at the moment but single entities as said above do indeed make for large problems. However, one has to take into account the means as to why

-Most factions have some means of CC (Crowd Control) for those who are't MMO familiar, which are control effects on another units to prevent it from being able to do what it wants to do. Every faction in this game has some form of crowd control in T1

-Nids
termagaunts w crippling poison, barbed wire stranglers

-Chaos
cultist doomblast, havocs long ranged suppression,
Sorcerer's chains of entanglents, and tomb of subjugation
alongside the plague champion fist, and armors

SM
-scouts with shotguns, ASM with disruption on jump, apothecary MCB
- Techmarines high powered shot

and you can see where Im going.

The problem arises from a lack of having any mannerism of crowd control (that works but is in the process of being fixed). The interceptors jump but have no dirsuption in t1 but pick it up in t2 which is fine because at least they get it in time. stormtroopers get grenade launchers but you dont always want grenade launchers. Purgation can suppress but how often does someone get them in range for 1v1 in t1 to do so? In addition the only way to back up crowd control is with actual dps. The way in which strikes do damage is being changed to the burst style dps to match that of its counter parts and the purgation are being made to be more long ranged suppression (which makes them more capable of handling large areas without getting close) will surely cause a change in that of the manner in which Gk has problems with Single entities because once again 2 of the 3 purchase units in t1 that require power have no crowd control effective usage for t1, however once they become more well equipped at doing so (what is going on right now) then that should give rise to strikes and stormtroopers to more easily be capable of putting enough pressure to force them off.

Do I still think they need more CC? yes, and we got some. The purified blades ability provided by the BC will enable a 20% chance to knockback enemy units. That is huge. In addition the plasma guns are being made worth while to take on the IQST, which means they will be used more frequently now with better results in terms of damage as well CC effectiveness. Single entities are a problem but they indirectly being fixed as everything else in GK is being fixed right now.

"The exact nature as to why the problem exist"
Brother Captain
followed up by for say as an example 2x stormtroopers and a strike squad
-as of now they have no CC at all
-1 stormtrooper buys grenades increasing the amount of crowd control but vice versa decreasing the amount of outgoing damage via direct shots rather than arc which can be dodged by moving forward or backward
- strikes ranged damage with 1 stormtrooper squad wasn't enough as is to deal with being a ranged force which leads to
-pulling out a 3rd stromtrooper unit this stormtrooper units brings the faction back on par of having respectable ranged dps while having some crowd control capabilites (though not timely reliable like scout explosive shot)
-now one has 3 stormtrooper squads going into T2. where in T2 we know that all the other ranged units get upgrades that put them far and beyond the prowess capabilities of stormtroopers because stormtroopers aren't even supposed to be the dedicated main ranged dps of GK, the strikes are. Now one feels obligated to get plasma guns for suppression but they don't add much in terms of damage and confrontation to other ranged units. hence its actually like you only have a strike squad on the field with no crowd control.

My point. Interceptors and purgation helped alleviate that problem because you had reliable suppression and reliable knockback from both units in t2. But they aren't used right now. And people have taken advantage of the linear nature in which is being played and now they know single entites are more than capable of dealing with them utilizing their flaws against them (not to say that factions don't have flaws, it's just no factions flaws to this extent) the purchase of just one of the 2 power units should help this problem drastically, and now that purified blades gives knockback whenever someone comes across a tank single entity they should have more a means of dealing with them because they have the crowd control and the dps to back it up (purified blades, either inteceptors or purgation or both/ strikes in t2 with justicar get energy burst and stormtroopers get plasma overcharge with the dps to back it up now that the damage is respectable)

I'm personally going to wait for the patch and play them first before I start to give any suggestions on ideas of how to introduce more crowd control (if anymore is even needed)

[saltychipmunk]

Well I can only assume that the new frag grenade on the ist sarge is supposed to be the close range crowd control.

[Element]

Well I can only assume that the new frag grenade on the ist sarge is supposed to be the close range crowd control.

Yep

[saltychipmunk]

going back to the whole idea of trying to get away from having the ist as the ranged dps and SS as the actual ranged squad.

does anyone else feel like that would be against each unit's apparent roll?
forgetting the Strikes ranged dps for now , their main t2 upgrade adds support abilities and their t2 weapon upgrade is a jack of all trades weapon. Would this not suggest that SS are the support unit and not the IST?

And we all know people use ist as a conventional infantry unit.

So the question is , why are we fighting their apparent roles? Why must we try to make SS the ranged dps in t2 when clearly they dont wana be? and why do we need to make IST a support unit when clearly no one wants to use them that way?

Seems to me it would be nifty if we have a heavy infantry race in which the roles of support and main ranged unit was reversed . Infact i like exploring that current relationship in the current build , even if it is only practical in t1 and early t2.

[Element]

going back to the whole idea of trying to get away from having the ist as the ranged dps and SS as the actual ranged squad.

does anyone else feel like that would be against each unit's apparent roll?
forgetting the Strikes ranged dps for now , their main t2 upgrade adds support abilities and their t2 weapon upgrade is a jack of all trades weapon. Would this not suggest that SS are the support unit and not the IST?

And we all know PEOPLE use ist as a conventional infantry unit.

So the question is , why are we fighting their apparent roles? Why must we try to make SS the ranged dps in t2 when clearly they dont wana be? and why do we need to make IST a support unit when clearly no one wants to use them that way?

Mianly becaue of this unit (Purifiers). If you were to change strikes to play as an offensive unit and make IQST into a truly dedicated ranged unit (which would mean doing what torpid said and that is increasing their health...but also needing to increase their resistance in some nature to damage be taken because they are still extremely fragile) you would need to change purifiers roles. Personally I have gone over this Salty. It's just a question of would everyone be up for a change in purifiers when personally I see them as a pretty solid unit though given granted (I personally don't play them because I feel their role at time interferes with the faction as a whole)

Back on topic, there aren't many things that gk don't have in terms of roles, and the only one that I could imagine fit their role is playing as an artillery like unit. Which is almost like how they play right now with their psychic pulse ability but on a much smaller scale. However if that were to change and they were to become a true artillery unit with large scale attacks that truly pack a punch behind them to which you could compensate that by reducing their melee, then the way in which I also believe people are playing strikes and IQST would be able to work. It's a 3 player swing really. If you want to change them to play how everyone plays them now but still be effective, you need to compensate that so as not to make internal balance but still make it so purifiers are special in that of what they provide to the faction. GK don't have artillery except the plasma cannon dread which is being taken out of its role imo, however if you were to make it so purifiers became an artillery piece unit, then you could get that crappy weapon off of the dread and replace it with the MM to which the role of artillery is given to a unit that may in all respects be an artillery unit, but has been used as a melee unit all this time

*Edit*
Here are the pros and cons of doing so

Pros
______
- The purifiers would no longer need "A baby sitter" to be made effective on the battlefield, in that of the form of the libby or the Brocaptain

- They wouldn't be in constant conflict with strikes, If the changes for strikes hold true, then that means strikes will be getting a melee charge, that really in addition to their melee prowess are the major defining qualtities of this unit and now once again they are becoming overly close. Though given granted the melee will never be the same, the charge will not be the same, and that strikes should be in ranged more in melee, but with a melee charge, it will be much more enticing to use them in melee in T2 as compensation for a purifier squad of lower prestige.

- They would no longer be a hindrance for the factions ability to tier, Because purifiers are the fore front they can take a bit of losses, which is normal, but those losses add up and only give reason to not get them, because they conflict with getting termi varients which, while not haveing melee charges, are undoubtedly better at melee than purifiers. Purifiers would no longer be (the bloodcrusher unit)

Purifiers are at their best as a fast purchase in the beginning of t2 when nobody has brought out t2 units, very much like the bloodcrusher. Not many T1 units can handle what they bring to the table, but that window rapidly closes as T2 units come out and T3 rides into view. By making them an artillery like unit, they would no longer be a somewhat "risk" unit purchase choice. That for all respects and purposes become a means of blocking yourself from getting to T3 and taking out the legitimate and high end melee units. Purifiers would no longer be bought to bring a quick means of melee which the faction gets plenty of from interceptors and strikes, they would be an artillery unit.... The only artillery unit... Giving them clear and present rights to why you would get them, because no other unit would conflict with them, because there are none

- They wouldn't conflict with interceptors. Interceptors, filla strong role of synergy in the GK faction allowing means of quick disruption to tie up set up teams, finish off squads, and moreover have the only vehicle snare in the entire faction. Purifiers have nothing in that regards of synergy with the natural gun line manner in which this army plays. They push the pace leaving stormtroopers and strike squads behind taking away from the overall supporting fire provided by them. They unlike interceptors have an inferior means of engaging in melee, where purifiers can easily be CC'D and take high amounts of damage, there is nothing that can be done to stop an instant teleportation. Now given granted someone can have a rhino and use that rhino to get them close and keep the ranged units in close vacinity, the gk rhino "which is not really a rhino" doesn't have the greatest armor and means to support in those regards. The gk rhino usually wants to play defensivelly backing up because it cant reinforce units, to keep a sustainable fight going/ repair going on the rhino if losses are taken.

By making them an artillery like unit, they would no longer be pushing the pace but only further sollidifying the gunline.

It's no secret that the B.C. is a freaking tank which can get into melee without much trouble because he's got a teleport and has sturdy armor. Supporting the B.C. has always been the means of the game, and many gk players have said that ranged is the way to do it. Well if that's the case then well there you go. And if you need a little bit more, you would get interceptors, which also have an instantaneous teleport (no longer, but still somewhat retained so to speak, in that they dont need to run in to cover the distance) Now you have units getting in melee in the most respectable means of doing so (teleportation, just like terminators and paladins) however unlike terminators and paladins, interceptors are not a means to an end like purifiers sometimes feel like, when you compare the two. Interceptors have the snaring support nade, as well as the psych out energy drain nade that will now be doing explosive damage, in addition to the fact they have similar means of travel (teleportation) No longer would you have the unit conflict that comes fro purifiers and termi-variants because interceptors are a truly synergetic piece to the faction.

Purifiers being an artillery unit would also be a truly synergetic piece to the faction because there are no other artillery pieces except the Dreadnought plasma cannon that needs to be removed and replaced with the MM, because the plasma cannon takes the dreadnought out of its role as a walker at the front lines, supporting the infantry with buffs and respectable ranged firepower

Cons
_____
- Some people really like the offensive melee nature of purifiers in combat and wouldn't care to see that role changed. Pufiers alongside the libby or the brother captain, is really effective. They are a force to be reckoned with in the beginning of T2, and some people like to commit to this style of play that makes them feel aggressive. (In addition their is infiltration provided by the libby to get them in unscather if there is no detector and this to an extent works just as well as an instant teleport)

- Why would we change purifiers after all this time? If something is not broken why change it?

- Strikes being more melee dependant would only act the same as purifiers anyways so what would be gained from switching the roles of these 2 units? The purifiers are a truly respectable melee unit with a small aoe, and the longest charge range in the game. The excel in melee as to where the strikes wont. Strikes strength from what has been gathered by many gk players is at ranged, so why would we change them back to melee going what is respectably seen as backwards?

Purifiers can fill the same role as interceptors if played correctly in that they can corner a vehicle so that a unit like the vindicare assassin can put shots in while the purifiers put the pressure on upclose. The daemon hammer getting rear armor hits alongside a vindicare assassin or some other A.V. unit can be just as good

- If you changed purifiers you would have to change strikes and stormtroopers. Almost as if we were make a complete left turn in regards to the means of how GK play, as opposed to the graudual mannerism of straight as where we have come to now

These are the reasons that I can think of as to why you would or would not change Purifiers into an artillery like unit though I'm sure there are more given for both sides, especially that of cons (Just my natural bias, and means of not having the experience in that of playing the purifier route as much as with interceptors)

But yea I just wanted to post you my thoughts on that of answering that question of unit roles Salty

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Whoaaaaaa... GK dread getting price reduction,i love it. It was just incredibly expensive to get out and immediately pulverize by all the AV sources,still have to purchase its other attachments, overall it becomes a hefty investment. Yes SS getting firing pattern fixed! hopefully their in a much better position then previously,except Zealous charge for SS? why lol? they don't retain their NF in t2 anymore, don't see the need it

[531st]

Awww yiss. GK changes are awesome. BC is no longer a sack of potatoes, useful puified blades, buffed WATH, buffed strikes, buffed and definitely more reasonable ist upgreades, rhino that wouldnt instagib from shees if when it stucks in something, dunno about disruptionless 1.5s delayed jump troops, good purgation tweaks, INFERNO DREAD BUFF!!!

btw did u fix the disappearing SS weapons when justicar appears?

Those changes look promising. Maybe the ghost will leave u be, caeltos ...for some time

[PhatE]

Awww yiss. GK changes are awesome. BC is no longer a sack of potatoes...

hahah A sack of potatoes indeed!

[Sub_Zero]

* Ork Burnas health increase from 15% to 20%
* Slugga Boyz Nob Leader health increase from 15% to 10%

It seems like a good step. Now slugga boyz in T1 have 720 health and their nob is less nuts. BUT! Let me remind you yet again how powerful that nob is even without the upgrade.

At level 1 slugga nob deals 65 power melee DPS and has 420 health.
At level 2 slugga nob deals 71.5 power melee DPS and has 483 health.
At level 3 slugga nob deals 78 power melee DPS and has 555 health.
At level 4 slugga nob deals 86 power melee DPS and has 638 health.

Seems like a hell of a squad leader. He does not need to benefit from the upgrade at all. He is overpowered and unkillable this way. Come on! Why slugga boyz should combine high damage and be enormously tanky at high levels?

Also, let me express my big concern about another orky thing. The painboy's ability that explodes stuff. I don't know why my thread received so few comments. To me this ability is so obviously badly designed and overpowered. Please, give it another look, all my complaints were clearly put there

* Strike Squad Justicar now bestows the current effects of Psybolts Ammunition as well

This change bothers me as well. So the justicar is going to be a desirable purchase vs heavy-armored races whereas his combat efficiency will be insignificant vs light-armored races. What about giving him that versatile inferno damage type instead of plasma? No worse vs LI, not so strong (but still good!) vs HI. What do you think?

P. S. Another look and a comment (the necessity of the change, the possibility of implementation, etc) on these threads will be highly appreciated: Talks about vehicles and their fire on the move, Artillery pieces that fire at will and ruin everything

[Caeltos]

Updated the first post again.

[ChrisNihilus]

* Aspiring Champion now grants "Zealous Charge" ability (MoK and MoT removes it)
* Zealous Charge - The Chaos Space Marine begins to unleash a hail of gunfire on target area, slowing the targets inside the area by 80% and moving towards them. Once they reach the area, they will arm themselves with Chainswords and Bolt Pistols.

D:

Weird... but cool.
You can make them switch weapons? I believed that was impossible. That's awesome.