Patch 2.3.1 (Tentative balance changelog preview)

[Torpid]

Why on earth is daemonic visage getting a buff? What is going on...

[Atlas]

I hate to be that guy but.... why is the apo and fc getting a bolt pistol dmg buff?

[Caeltos]

Why on earth is daemonic visage getting a buff? What is going on...

Because it's a pretty terrible cost effiency wargear. It's inferior to the Trophy Rack in every regard, and that thing is in a much better position for the most part. For an example.

Daemonic Visage has an AoE of 25 radius that reduces damage done by 15% (does not effect vehicles)
Trophy Rack has an AoE of 25 radius that reduces damage done by 25% INCLUDING vehicles

It's still inferior in comparison since it doesn't effect vehicles. I might go the route retail did which is largely the same, it just requires the Chaos Lord to hit someone in melee to give the effect, but that thing is even cheaper then what it is proposed here.

Just to give some perspective on the matter.

I hate to be that guy but.... why is the apo and fc getting a bolt pistol dmg buff?

It should be documented in the first post with the reasoning. Either way, I'll say it again. It's primarily to open up the option to play more defensive-oriented and encourage stance-dancing, which seems to be abit of an lost-art. Stance-dancers are largely rewarded that can reap the benefit of the accuracy modifier.

When will the next release go live approximately? (Is it before or after the next MRT / bigger tourney)

Probably sometime early-mid September.

[Torpid]

Nerf Trophy Rack don't buff daemonic visage, how are either of them cost ineffective? Trophy Rack passively grants 'ard boys to every single allied unit around your warboss (including himself and vehicles), that's absolutely absurd, don't buff daemonic visage to that level, especially on a hero with even more health and who can't be suppressed or knocked back!!! What sort of accessory is that powerful?


I assume the bolt-pistol buff carries through into the sanguine upgrade for the apo? I don't mind the extra damage, I think its fair really given that the LC does 18dps with his pistol.

[Tex]

I'm on Caeltos' side on this one. I have always thought of daemonic visage as being a horribly over-priced wargear, especially when compared with its direct counter parts (trophy rack and psychic scream).

The only thing that I could really justify the current state of daemonic visage with is that the Chaos Lord is unshakeable, cannot be suppressed, and has fantastic ranged damage available in T1 and T2 (combi-flamer and LTGB respectively), all on a melee commander who can't be approached or pressured by T1 melee squads.

All of that stuff makes him inherently better than most commanders, and thus having to pay more for gear that does a little less seemed okayish.

[Caeltos]

how are either of them cost ineffective?

Trophy Rack is not cost ineffective. Daemonic Visage on the other hand. Is very cost inefficient. Trophy Rack on paper is strong, but there's a reason that Now I'm Angry is a preferably purchase, since it gives him more potent and reliable staying power through it's abilities, and peel potential (and fast ones at that) + flexibility in distruption. As much reasoning can be said on the Dark Halo being more preferably. (And that's a very-ego-centric wargear)

Now to give furthermore clarity and hope -
- Chaos Lord will be roughly 3 times as sluggish in turning compared to the Warboss. This means that if he gets flanked, and wants to turn to engage - he will take a longer time to turn. Resulting in him being more easily forced off from ranged-fire.
- Chaos Lord anti-blob damage goes down quite abit. Remember that he pours out several of those fireballs, and the modifier itself on how it effects infantry in result.

So Chaos Lord will aimed to be mostly nerfed in the aspect where he shines, and improved on aspects where he can be sometime dumbfolded. And that will be the supportive-tended role of the Daemonic, and his Drain Life should now reliably at least kill a heretic model now. Quality of life changes for the most part.

[Torpid]

I think I've gone mad

[Bahamut]

Nerf Trophy Rack don't buff daemonic visage, how are either of them cost ineffective? Trophy Rack passively grants 'ard boys to every single allied unit around your warboss (including himself and vehicles), that's absolutely absurd, don't buff daemonic visage to that level, especially on a hero with even more health and who can't be suppressed or knocked back!!! What sort of accessory is that powerful?

agreed 100%

[Flash]

from the other thread:

It'll get a test-run in the develop-build to see how it plays out. Can always figure the numbers abit.

That's how it usually works. Calm down.

[Caeltos]

I think I've gone mad

How elaborate and constructive of you.

[Bahamut]

Well, WB has to go cybork and angry bits (so no trophy rack) if he wants to shut down a defensive position where as CL can just walk up to it thanks to unshakable and use LTGB, on top of that he's now debuffing 25% damage? you understand that a -25% damage aura is mathematically stronger than a +25% damage?

Why then don't make physic scream also be a passive ability instead of an activated skill like trophy rack then?

[Caeltos]

Why then don't make physic scream also be a passive ability instead of an activated skill like trophy rack then?

I wouldn't want it to a passive on that specific commander, espicially during tier 1. Let's not get silly with comparisons.

I increased it's range to branch it onto it's own regard and not want to have everything be an exact-copy paste. Of course, that's what Daemonic Visage currently has it's going for it. (Daemonic Visage)

Think of it more as a placeholder for now.

* Daemonic Visage cost reduced from 125/35 to 100/30
* Daemonic Visage now triggers through melee hit and effects units in radius 25. Reduces the damage done by 25%. Does not stack.

Aka - Same functionality as retail.

[BaptismByLoli]

BBQ time.

Inferno Dread can impress his friends now

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

* Sacred Standard moved from T3 to T2
* Sacred Standard cost increase from 140/30 to 150/35
So now SM are going to have almost a TCSM with Sternguard + For The Emperor + Sacred Standard.

Even with the price increase, I'm not sure about this change.

* Daemonic Visage cost reduced from 125/35 to 100/30
* Daemonic Visage now triggers through melee hit and effects units in radius 25. Reduces the damage done by 25%. Does not stack.
Keep the 125/35 price, keep it as a passive AOE.

* Icon of Khorne cost reduced from 100/25 to 100/20
IMHO this wargear could have a rework. This wargear only have real synergy with Lighting Claws, but LC already have his awesome tanky build with Harness of Rage + Dark Halo.

The problem is which ability could it receive. It could be a Demoralize effect on kill, but already have Daemonic Visage for debuff. A damage reduction receive? It already have the Dark Halo for tankyness. A speed increase is discarded, because he does a fuckton of damage and its inmune to weapon_knockback/supression.

Maybe some DOT when the Chaos Lord is attacked? Or a larger melee charge?

[Tex]

Icon of Khorne has an obvious direction to go, and now more than ever it should go this direction. I have suggested for eons that Icon of Khorne should increase the charge range of the Chaos Lord along with keeping it's existing effect. Now it would be appropriate if it increased his turning speed as well.

That would certainly justify the price going back to 100-25

[Ace of Swords]

* Let the Galaxy Burn damage reduced from 35 to 30

Simply overnerfed, it might have been OP (though it never gave me much trouble) in retail and it received many nerfs already, this is just unecessary.

Cost reduction on visage is ok, but it should remain as it is now, the CL tanks way less than the WB, doesn't have a global that further reduces damage tanken and doesn't provide AV, so the visage works well to actually brawl with your own termies/Kcsm/letters against other specialized melee infantry and have the edge in the fight.


Also spiky armor needs fixing, it's just broken the difference of staying power of the WB between having it or having another armor, EVEN the heavy armor which costs 3x times of spiky.

[Black Relic]

Icon of Khorne:

I always thought that is should be a heal the CL on a kill (includes his ranged weapon killing something), and\or that is should reduce the cool down of Kill the Weak by like 20 seconds. Would make the Cl needed to be focused down early in an engagement or he would be even harder (perhaps)to force off than Hate+Halo in certain engagements vs certain race like nids because he would constantly heal himself through kills and from the lower cooldown on Kill the Weak.

If Demonic visage doesn't stack with it self that means the damage reduction will be exclusive. If this damage reduction is exclusive that mean the Chaos Terminator's debuff on kill will not stack with Demonic Visage. I think it should stay being a passive AOE.

[Vapor]

It'll be interesting to see how the LG armor tier swap will play out in IG mirrors. On one hand, beating a well-played LG w/ Stabilizers (at least in a lane) with the Commissar seemed nearly impossible... but flak jacket will also negate Spotters to some extent, making it very difficult to dislodge HWT's. I guess being able to actually damage enemy units is a step up.

[Swift]

Finally the charge on AC CSM makes my purchase of AC before mark viable. Excellent.

[Helios]

Can you PLEASE finally increase the CD on the Avatar's wailing doom? That thing can completely wipe squads (even on retreat) and can be used at least twice in an engagement. Nothing with that much destructive power should be available more than once per fight especially while having to dance around eldar weapon teams and their extremely annoying and numerous forms of crowd control from pretty much all their commanders.

[Bahamut]

Caeltos, dunno which one is the intended but there's one issue with Sternguard Kraken ammo

The wiki says it has a multiplier of 1 to both HI and SHI http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... ard_kraken

But the reality is that it has a .80 to HI and .3 to SHI, making normal tacs WITHOUT plasma gun better against HI than SG kraken ammo

Which one is the intended?

[ChrisNihilus]

Can we have the Commissar Lord change name into Lord Commissar and giving him a Bolt Pistol?
There were already posts and threads in the past about it, so this is a little reminder.

That would be so nice.

[viggih]

Can we have the Commissar Lord change name into Lord Commissar and giving him a Bolt Pistol?
There where already posts and threads in the past about it, so this is a little reminder.

That would be so nice.

Seconded

[Spartan717]

Could we possibly rename Heretics to 'Cultists'. The reason I suggest this is because the term 'Heretic' is a too broad.

Furthermore, it would be great if we could rename Kasrkin to Grenadiers. The reason for this is that Kasrkin generally stick close to Cadian regiments. The generalised name will also allow the addition of different models for different armies i.e. Death korps of krieg grenadiers.


Just a thought

[Dark Riku]

Can we have the Commissar Lord change name into Lord Commissar and giving him a Bolt Pistol?

Could we possibly rename Heretics to 'Cultists'. The reason I suggest this is because the term 'Heretic' is a too broad.

Furthermore, it would be great if we could rename Kasrkin to Grenadiers. The reason for this is that Kasrkin generally stick close to Cadian regiments. The generalised name will also allow the addition of different models for different armies i.e. Death korps of krieg grenadiers.

+1 all of these.

[ChrisNihilus]

Could we possibly rename Heretics to 'Cultists'. The reason I suggest this is because the term 'Heretic' is a too broad.

Furthermore, it would be great if we could rename Kasrkin to Grenadiers. The reason for this is that Kasrkin generally stick close to Cadian regiments. The generalised name will also allow the addition of different models for different armies i.e. Death korps of krieg grenadiers.


Just a thought

Oh, yes, that too would be nice.
Expecially the Grenadiers part.

[sebi.costa]

hey guys
Chimeras now has "Mobile-Base" upgrade for 100/30 , 40s research time
* Mobile Base - Hulls down the Chimera in position and sets up sandbags around it. Providing additional cover for all nearby Guardsmen infantry. Can act as a retreat point for all players. When in mobile-base mode, the Chimera cannot move but gains additional 250 health. Takes 6 seconds to change modes.

Love this idea! Love the ogryns range boost too.

* Force Commander ranged dps (default bolt pistol) from 13,29 to 16,04
* Apothecary ranged dps (default bolt pistol) from 13,29 to 16,04

By the way why this change? (im simply curious, do they really need to be able to case retreating units that bad? or is it so u can use them in range stance when u dont want to rush them in? I mean ya the damage was a bit low, its a good change for the apothecary since his not as good in melee combat as the fc, but why boost the force commander too?)

[Torpid]

"The Ogryn ranged damage should open up the option to use them as a backline unit with hard-hitting ranged-damage without putting them at a dangerous risk of getting mowed down."

Wouldn't it be better then to increase their range rather than their ranged damage? I mean, they already do pretty good damage, basically the same as tactical marines -> 1 dps less.

Also can we please nerf the damage of the tzeentch-marked chaos dreadnought's Frenzied Barrage, it does half the damage of a grenade in a huge aoe, suppresses and does flame-based DoT... Yet this is meant to be the AV dreadnought? I honestly think it's a bit too good.

[Atlas]

Can we have the Commissar Lord change name into Lord Commissar and giving him a Bolt Pistol?

Could we possibly rename Heretics to 'Cultists'. The reason I suggest this is because the term 'Heretic' is a too broad.

Furthermore, it would be great if we could rename Kasrkin to Grenadiers. The reason for this is that Kasrkin generally stick close to Cadian regiments. The generalised name will also allow the addition of different models for different armies i.e. Death korps of krieg grenadiers.

+1 all of these.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

when can we expect 2.3.1 to release, soon or the same duration as 2.3 ?