Nerfs and changes for Nids.

[Zato]

Nids needs a nerf imo. Their eco is way too good. Synapse upgrades should add to their popcap and upkeep in t2 imo. Also LA's flesh hook should not do as much damage as it does. I think there should be wargear(add to existing or make new wargear) that grants a buff to his flesh hooks damage and range. Toxin sacs should be increased to 80/20. Adrenal glands(Hormagaunts) should be increased to 75/20. Why do they have such cheap upgrades anyway? Synapse should be treated as extra popcap and upkeep for Warriors just like squad leaders such as Tacs and ASMS to balance out their eco in T2. Actually it would be better if Warriors had a squad leader that granted synapse that could be killed and have to be repurchased just like other respected leaders of others classes. That squad leader should obviously have a distinct look to stand out from the other Warriors models. Rav.A tunnels should cost 75 red but be cloaked. Tyrant Guard healing ability should cost Zero energy to activate BUT it should deplete the Tyrant Gaurds energy pool for how ever long you use it, similar to the FC's Sword and Shield or any cloaking ability except there should be a cooldown after you trigger it.

If anyone have any other ideas or don't agree with me share what and why.

[Ace of Swords]

Termas upgrades are obligatory, increasing their cost in not an option.

Hormas are alright before getting endless swarm.

Endless swarm should also cost popcap.

Flesh hook needs to become a stun like the Knob knife or HotW instead of a pull.

Pheromone needs rework, with endless swarm it's just broken, same for the SL reinforcing aura altough that's very late T3.

Doom still needs to be fixed, it deletes every single infantry/HI/SHI squad in the game.

HT's schything talons still completely block retreat units and it's absurd

RA's hive nodes should either get a build time or be moved to T2

Genstealers are stupidly powerful for their cost, although they are underused because the TG alone manages to stall the game still you start spamming carnifexes.

Towers shouldn't be able to spawn rippers, if you buy a setup team vs nids it's insta GG because of that, they become absolutely useless.

The rest should be more or less fine.

[Torpid]

You're forgetting the very best tyranid unit - zoanthropes. Terribly overpowered, they don't need such powerful AV utility off the bat, it should definitely cost extra.

[Bahamut]

FWB got its cooldown doubled already

I agree on the endless swarm costing pop tho, makes no sense the 2 extra models don't cost pop nor upkeep

I think pheromones is ok, should be t2 instead of t1 but other than that is fine. Gaunts are already way way weaker in elite than in retail, the base hp per model is lower and the hp boost from synapse is also quite lower. It's alot easier to force off gaunt squads pre endless swarm in ELITE

[Torpid]

Cooldown is irrelevent, zoans are spammable due to nid's tiny upkeep and their low upkeep compared to how much bleed they cause.

FWB is too easy to use, the effect too strong with its damage AND snare and it has far too long range.

All of this is on top of the fantastic health aura which they also get for free and the terrifying amount of damage they do without needing to set-up from a distance far greater than wraithguard (thank god they don't suppress).

Can you imagine what would happen if WG couldn't do damage to vehicles but could snare them from the same distance FWB can? IMO that would be terribly OP and WG are not as spammable as zoans.

[Bahamut]

oh you mean warp spiders haywire nade? huh.. that'd be fucked up indeed

Nids actually have a very high upkeep on gaunts and very standard high upkeep on warriors, thing is nids can manage population in a very fucked up way. if you go only with 1 warrior squad and 3 guants you'll be sitting at just 39 pop and yet you got a core army, but if that wasnt the case, each guant squad is gives you higher upkeep than a tac squad, and that's considering a gaunt squad is almost half the pop

[Torpid]

Warp spiders are a seperate squad though. The comparison then would be venoms and zoans vs WG and WS. I think the AI potential of both is about the same given what they do for their respective races, but the nid one has better AV potential, not to mention zoans don't bleed anything like warp spiders when they use their FWB from across the screen, whereas the WS have to teleport in and then throw the nade, that's not as useless as just being able to throw the nade across the screen.

And upkeep is a two way thing, it's how much population their units take up as well as the raw upkeep values since you only pay upkeep after you surpass 30 population and even then it's only on the most req-expensive models.

[Raffa]

Nids are in a very curious position against setup teams, and is why Zoanthropes can be so monstrously good against certain compositions.

Tyranids in T1 struggle vs layered setup teams, with Raveners the obvious solution but they are often a sub-optimal choice in comparison with warriors. Getting them as a 5th unit is viable but rare, as they bleed hard throughout the game and don't have a lot of HP. Synapse is pretty mandatory for Tyranid units to survive in T1, which means for Lictor/Ravener players Warriors are usually on the field as soon as possible, sometimes the first power choice now that Toxic Sacs is 15 power.

LA using Flesh Hook on the setup team member with the weapon and then not attacking that with anything can really cancel that unit out of an engagement. If the Lictor has flanked and infiltrated, he can sometimes hook the lead setup team member away from the main fight and then tie up the second team.

Now the HT and RA don't have such easy solutions without upgrades, and even with Extended Carapace/Burrow armor they aren't as good at this job as a LA. Still, if the Tyranid player survives this T1 (IMO their weakest point in the game) he can start pumping out Zoanthropes.

They hard counter setups. End of. But the bigger issue is how they also act as a snare to walkers, particularly Dreadnoughts which can act as anti-blob. With Capillary Towers giving enhanced sight range, the massive range on this snare makes it almost impossible to get a vehicle out safely if you balls-up the engagement.

So when you factor in how Zoanthropes counter Tyranids' big T1 weakness, as well as soft countering literally everything and with that awesome snare, it's easy to make a case for them being the most cost-efficient unit in the game. Being a glasscannon unit obvious means you need high damage potential, but in a race that can protect low-hp units as well as Tyranids, the weakness is somewhat mitigated. Snipers are the obvious counter, but they aren't really optimal in pairs vs Tyranids IMO.

IMO the whole of Tyranid T1 needs a workaround to stop dependence on Warriors and to cut the Lictor's nuts ability to counter setup teams.

[FiSH]

sometimes the first power choice now that Toxic Sacs is 15 power.

i thought it was always 15 power...??

[Torpid]

They were always 15 power and for as long as I can remember warriors were always the first power purchase of nids because of how ridiculously fast they come out if you choose to get have them as such. Nevertheless I agree with Raffa's post.

[Superhooper01]

Only thing i want to see changed is nids getting 2-3 tyrant guard when i only have 1 dread in that time, and the doom with the swarm lord.

[krimson]

Cap carnifexes to one at a time..will balance the game

Carnifexes with the nid swarm are very hard to kill without all av..or make carnifexes ..only range..remove rippers..will force nids to invest in tier 2...rather than just spam carnifexes....which are basically tanks with huge health and in a nid army is hard to kill...with un suppressible hive tyrant...

[BaptismByLoli]

2 sounds reasonable. 3... Well, idk how they can get 3. 1 is just useless when its an extremely close game etc when the enemy has who knows what.

We talking per player right?

[krimson]

The reason I said hardcap it as one but may be give it an option to morph its weapons as it sees fit. Bcos of carnifexes tremendous survivability. Somehow it seems to die less...maybe its because of the swarm of nids surrounding it or it has higher health or different armor. You require multiple sources of AV. Nids economy will allow it to get Swarmlord if required.
Already nids have a tyrant guard who is extremely difficult to kill. I find it harder to kill than normal walkers. If you can hardcap termiantors, why not carnifexes who are perhaps more effective but less dangerous obviously. If you are saying you do not see mroe tahn two...then hardcapping it to two wont really help. The carnifex has an awesome synergy with the hoards.

[Torpid]

The ranged carnifexes are pretty easy to kill given their cost (You have to acknowledge that they cost more than your average tank), however the thornback fex is a nightmare to kill for 3 reasons:

1) More health.
2) spawns rippers which makes set-up teams pretty useless vs it, they also snare walkers/tanks that try to chase it down which is just sad.
3) They can just charge away.

I think the ripper cooldown on the TB needs to be longer and the upgrade in general should cost a bit more, 200/50 would be nice. I don't feel a cap on the number of carnifexes a nid player purchases is necessary, although I do think that carnifexes shouldn't benefit from the swarmlord's speed buff (do they? I think they do?).

On a different note the rippers spawned from the cappilary towers are simply OP. It's far too easy to pop a capillary tower up out of nowhere to some flank 10seconds before an engagement. Spawn some rippers out of it, have them come in from the side while the fex charges in with the nid melee blob and it's a won engagement. Guaranteed won engagement for ~150 req? That's stupid. It usually doesn't even cost red either. I think units spawned from the cap towers should have a small red cost. That or the cap towers themselves should have a build time and not just shoot out of the ground (I know the rippers/spore mines themselves have a build time from the cap tower, but I don't think it alone is significant enough).

[krimson]

Yes you are right. Rippers should perhaps be removed from the game. It is the thornback that causes this issue. Not the ranged ones. Rippers and the nid swarm make the carnifex invincible. Thats why I said..it should be capped to 1

[BaptismByLoli]

Either way, unless you had that 1 bad engagement, taking out 1 Carnifex isnt that hard if you have the right AV (i.e. Hard Snare) so you should really prioritize that first Carni and just see how fast they die.

Capping Nids to 1 Carnifex is Really a big change which sounds rather unfair for Nids player. And I don't even Nids before you ask.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[lolzarz]

I'll use Space Marines to illustrate what I think about the thornback carnifex because I love space marines, and the thornback carnifex is similar to the venerable dreadnought/dark age of technology dreadnought.

The Thornback carnifex is like the 2 Dreadnoughts in that they have a charge, are tier 3 and are melee walkers. The Thornback gets rippers and 100 more health, while the Dreadnoughts gets Emperor's Fist, inspires, are cheaper, can charge, more DPS and has stoicism (last 3 limited to Venerable Dreadnought). So in direct combat, I'd even say the Venerable Dreadnought is a more formidable enemy than the thornback carnifex. The Dark Age of Technology Dreadnought, I'd say roughly similar.

Therefore, I conclude the main problems as:
a. Multiple thornbacks
b. Rippers
(possibly) c. Synapse bonuses

Multiple thornbacks are very difficult to get; if they get multiple thornbacks, they don't have the heavy weapons that the other variants have, basically resulting in them having no tank. Due to dreadnoughts being cheaper, you can still get a predator if you try more than 1 dreadnought.

Rippers have the almost unique advantage of being tiny. That forces you to either melee them (something you really don't want your devastators and your tactical space marines to do, especially those with AV weapons) or use splash damage, which is really something you want to be using on the rest of the tyranid army, like those hormagaunts. Without the rippers, you are free to use your lascannons to assault the thornback carnifex. If it charges in to avoid lascannon fire, that means it can't charge out, and is at the mercy of stuff like melta bombs, missile launchers, the dreadnought, etc.

With ripper cover, however, the lascannons can be disregarded, so the carnifex can walk in due to lack of snares, and save the charge for running away. I therefore think that rippers are the main problem. Either remove the rippers from infestation towers (is the synapse not enough?) or make the rippers easier to kill, by decreasing health or make tiny targets easier to hit. They shouldn't snare walkers and vehicles for obvious reasons as well.