Spamming is lame

[Boom]

My personal opinion is that spamming is lame.

Although it may be a very viable tactic, it makes for more fun, visualy appealing and balanced games when no spamming is done. So how can we get rid of spamming being a viable tactic?

My suggestion is after the 2nd units of that type has been build put a "tax" on the unit in question, that would make it a less viable option and encourage the building of other squads.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

How is "Spamming" a balance topic man. It happens occasionally whether its team games & its not rare in 1v1 ,quite common for map control . 3x scouts/3 tics,etc

sure its cheap tactic that requires little to minimal micro in team games but its only considered Spamming if its 3 squads of the same unit type . i personally despise spamming myself ,i don't believe the system allows restriction to it . Else relic would"ve changed it ages ago

[Swift]

The tax will often be imposed automatically through upkeep and bleed so another tax really isn't very justifiable. The only time that three squads won't bleed is because the player is incredibly wise, then it is down to good play, but the upkeep mechanic is a suitable tax considering they will have more of an army elsewhere.

[Sub_Zero]

I rarely see spam. It is interesting to fight against sometimes (mass melee or mass ranged units), it is annoying to fight against sometimes (artillery, suppression teams, snipers). I don't think it needs to be removed.

[Torpid]

Just because you think spamming is lame is not a valid reason to try and remove spamming from the game.

If the game is properly balanced and the players are not playing like fools by getting a composition massively weak to 1 type of unit, then spamming will be far less efficient a strategy than getting a mixed composition.

There's nothing specific that needs to be done to solve spamming, rather people themselves should get mixed compositions that aren't massively weak to a single unit and also all of the units in the game need to be balanced. In such a scenario the spammer will always lose assuming the victim of spam knows has a brain and knows how to counter whatever unit is being spammed.

[Ace of Swords]

There is no spamming in dow2, nor the pocap or the units can permit it, the most I've seen is like 3x zoans or 3xspiders, but that means the player is never going T3.

[Indrid]

I don't mind spam and it can actually be interesting and fun to see, but I don't think 3xunit should even qualify. 3xTics and 3xIST are perfectly viable openings and not out of the ordinary, for example.

[BaptismByLoli]

I like to rock 3x GM as Commissar

[Major Richard Sharpe]

I remember watching a cast by Indrid that had Toilailee get 4 Tac squads (and was building a Fifth when the game ended) with sergeants (i think with sergeants) in a 3V3 on Tartarus Harbour a while back (15 September: 2013. Dawn of War 2: Faction Wars - Season 1 | Space Marines [vs] Orks | Game 1). He did very very well, and probably surprised the heck out of the opponents, not many people would expect that build (and especially with his Apothecary, that was a right pickle to deal with).

[lolzarz]

I remember watching a cast by Indrid that had Toilailee get 4 Tac squads (and was building a Fifth when the game ended) with sergeants (i think with sergeants) in a 3V3 on Tartarus Harbour a while back (15 September: 2013. Dawn of War 2: Faction Wars - Season 1 | Space Marines [vs] Orks | Game 1). He did very very well, and probably surprised the heck out of the opponents, not many people would expect that build (and especially with his Apothecary, that was a right pickle to deal with).

I remember watching that game as well. Was very interesting to see 4 squads of tactical space marines with the apothecary tanking everything the orks could throw at them, then push out the orks and cap the point.

To OP: Using a single squad type to fight the enemy army is not as viable as you think because Toilalee, in that case of the 4 tactical space marine squads in above example, lost the ability to snipe, shotgun blast, jump enemy units, suppress enemy units, grenades, etc. One of the reasons it worked was because Ace of Swords bombed the shit out of a stormboy squad by high-powered shot followed by 2 grenades earlier. Another other reason is that it was a 3v3, which allowed Toilalee to use his 4 tactical space marine squads effectively, because Ace of Swords killed the stormboyz.

From what I saw, the reason the 4 tactical space marine squads were able to smash into the orks was because:
a. Shoota boyz standing in the open fighting tactical space marines with advanced healing.
b. Angels of Death prevented weirdboy from knocking back advancing tactical space marines,
c. Stikkbommaz throwing stuff AFTER the rest of the army retreated.

As a result, what Dark Riku could have done was:
a. Use Aiming? Wotz Dat? on the tactical space marines.
b. Get his shootaz to take cover.
c. Cast Warp Vomit on the tactical space marines instead of in front of them.
d. Moved his stikkbommaz up to grenade the tactical space marines while they were grouped up below the staircase.

I don't think any of these were on cooldown because none of these abilities were used in the previous engagement in the center, where the tactical space marine assault occurred. Toilalee took a large risk in going 4 tactical space marines. This willingness to take risks and innovate should be encouraged.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

[/quote]
I remember watching that game as well. Was very interesting to see 4 squads of tactical space marines with the apothecary tanking everything the orks could throw at them, then push out the orks and cap the point.

To OP: Using a single squad type to fight the enemy army is not as viable as you think because Toilalee, in that case of the 4 tactical space marine squads in above example, lost the ability to snipe, shotgun blast, jump enemy units, suppress enemy units, grenades, etc. One of the reasons it worked was because Ace of Swords bombed the shit out of a stormboy squad by high-powered shot followed by 2 grenades earlier. Another other reason is that it was a 3v3, which allowed Toilalee to use his 4 tactical space marine squads effectively, because Ace of Swords killed the stormboyz.

As a result, what Dark Riku could have done was:
a. Use Aiming? Wotz Dat? on the tactical space marines.
b. Get his shootaz to take cover.
c. Cast Warp Vomit on the tactical space marines instead of in front of them.
d. Moved his stikkbommaz up to grenade the tactical space marines while they were grouped up below the staircase.
[/quote]

Warp vomit into Stickbombs nasty shit ,or he could just go Sluggaz/PB + Weirdy warpath into 4 tacs,pooff

[RagingJenni]

I think Indrid said it very well. 3x of a certain unit has always been a part of the game afaik (ex guardians, gm, tics, scouts etc.) and 4x of any unit has never been viable as far as I know, no one unit is flexible enough for that.

[ytimk]

Anything that adds an unexpected situation to emerge because of army composition is good by me. Some interesting plays, tactics, and just plain silliness have made for some great casts. Elite mod has balanced things so well that succeeding or failing with spam presents a good challenge.

[Superhooper01]

I've seen plenty of spams that simply make a game no fun or a struggle such as:

Grey knight St all with Gl and thats at least 4 all using the volley ability which is just crazy
Grey knight term spam which has been fixed
Grey knight purgation spam all with psy cannons (3-4)

4 imperial sent's all with launchers used against nid's

spams of manticores will a team of guard haveing 6

set up teams often get spammed seen players have over 4

Plague marines spam which in a 1v1 vs guard was very annoying

Eldar D cannons spam seen a player have over 4

in retail i once got 2 tacs as a sm player with 2 devs and in the solo lane in argent self the nid player i faced 15mins into game sent abuse calling me a noob for having 2 or each and said having 3 tacs is ******. To which i answered i have 2 tac's and u have 3 zoan's and multiply guants so stop crying u jizz stain.

most spams are only in 3v3 which i dont mind as they can be challenging to face and i simply view them as part of the game:p

[Dark Riku]

I remember watching that game as well.
...

Don't confuse me with Tyger. I was actually being useful that game...

A "spam" is usually easily dealt with since you have no flexibility at all and 1 kind of unit will wipe the floor with you.

[lolzarz]

I remember watching that game as well.
...

Don't confuse me with Tyger. I was actually being useful that game...

A "spam" is usually easily dealt with since you have no flexibility at all and 1 kind of unit will wipe the floor with you.

Who got pushed back by quadruple tactical space marines is beside the point; there was so much more that could have been done to defeat or at least prevent the tactical space marines from attacking, whichever player that was. Ace explosively dissecting your stormboyz also gives a good example of the benefits of mixing units, because tactical space marines obviously can't grenade enemy units. The reason the tactical space marines weren't killed was due to allied scout support, proving that "spamming" is not, in fact, as viable as OP thought.

[Forestradio]

Grey knight St all with Gl and thats at least 4 all using the volley ability which is just crazy

This composition has zero focus fire ability. Get jump units or invest in your hero.

Grey knight term spam which has been fixed

Every terminator variant has clear counters in elite mod. Some heroes can even do it in t2.

Grey knight purgation spam all with psy cannons (3-4)

Jump units or plasma weaponry.

4 imperial sent's all with launchers used against nid's

No focus fire once again.

spams of manticores will a team of guard haveing 6

Infiltrating AV will work on most maps, on others simply pressure him enough so he can't build 6 mantis. The IG player throwing all his units will also give you the XP advantage.

set up teams often get spammed seen players have over 4

Snipers, artillery, a better setup team.

Plague marines spam which in a 1v1 vs guard was very annoying

Even PMs will eventually die under enough focus fire.

Eldar D cannons spam seen a player have over 4

Split your forces, go after the other part of the map.

A "spam" is usually easily dealt with since you have no flexibility at all and 1 kind of unit will wipe the floor with you.

Exactly.

[Boom]

So my premis was wrong.

Spamming is not a viable tactic.

Just an annoying one

[Superhooper01]

Thank u forest but i wasn't actually complaining or angry at the things i listed just wanted to show a few ive seen:p

[Surprise Attack!]

Does anyone have a link to Toilet's game with the 4 tacs? I played with a guy named 2tac shakur today and was really reminded of that, but couldn't find it.

[Nurland]

There is one 1v1 of sexy-tex and toilet both going tac spam. I think the particular game in question is a faction war of orks vs sm (should ve quite easy to find from Indrid's Judentube channel)

[saltychipmunk]

so long as no other options exist i will continue to spam.

[Dark Riku]

Besides L2P you mean?

[Toilailee]

For once I completely agree with Dark Riku when he is being a douchebag.

[Dark Riku]

It was just a light-hearted comment. Geesh