For The Emperor(FC Global)

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
Phantom Revenger
Level 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon 16 Jun, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Phantom Revenger » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:02 pm

Zato wrote:After rereading my first post it does seem like I am asking for a buff but that really wasn't what I wanted to do. I was more focused on just changing around certain effects to better benefit the SM army in my own opinion. I just should have worded it properly. Also, I know that FTE buffs all damage but isn't it the same as just saying it buffs both range and melee damage? I just don't see where it was a good idea to change melee resist for melee damage which is basically what the change is. I say this because it benefits a mostly ranged army like SM more to have a defensive/offensive ability so when your tacs are being tied up by say Banshee's they won't get torn to shreds much faster or when you are in retreat it could save units from being wiped. At the same time it gives a decent range buff to support when you want to be offensive for what ever range unit you desire. You can also use it on ASM's to grant them more melee defense while jumping into a dangerous spot to throw a meltabomb that is granted a 25% buff from range damage.


The problem with it giving melee resist instead of melee damage increase is that then the two effects don't work in unison - you want to put it on a ranged squad like Tacs, Sternguard or Devs to reap the benefit of the increased damage, but then the melee resist isn't doing anything, and vice-versa if you put it on something like ASM or the Force Commander himself, unless you do the FTE -> Meltabomb trick.

Making it buff all damage means it boosts ability damage from stuff like the Librarian's Smite - think it might also buff the damage on Cleansing Flame too.

I like it as it is to be honest, the extra damage means your troops need less time to kill things and that has the net effect of reducing the damage they'll actually take (less time for the enemy troops to attack), and it's awesome on Sternguard if they have Hellfire loaded.
Zato
Level 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri 31 Jan, 2014 8:59 am

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Zato » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:49 pm

Phantom Revenger wrote:
Zato wrote:After rereading my first post it does seem like I am asking for a buff but that really wasn't what I wanted to do. I was more focused on just changing around certain effects to better benefit the SM army in my own opinion. I just should have worded it properly. Also, I know that FTE buffs all damage but isn't it the same as just saying it buffs both range and melee damage? I just don't see where it was a good idea to change melee resist for melee damage which is basically what the change is. I say this because it benefits a mostly ranged army like SM more to have a defensive/offensive ability so when your tacs are being tied up by say Banshee's they won't get torn to shreds much faster or when you are in retreat it could save units from being wiped. At the same time it gives a decent range buff to support when you want to be offensive for what ever range unit you desire. You can also use it on ASM's to grant them more melee defense while jumping into a dangerous spot to throw a meltabomb that is granted a 25% buff from range damage.


The problem with it giving melee resist instead of melee damage increase is that then the two effects don't work in unison - you want to put it on a ranged squad like Tacs, Sternguard or Devs to reap the benefit of the increased damage, but then the melee resist isn't doing anything, and vice-versa if you put it on something like ASM or the Force Commander himself, unless you do the FTE -> Meltabomb trick.

Making it buff all damage means it boosts ability damage from stuff like the Librarian's Smite - think it might also buff the damage on Cleansing Flame too.

I like it as it is to be honest, the extra damage means your troops need less time to kill things and that has the net effect of reducing the damage they'll actually take (less time for the enemy troops to attack), and it's awesome on Sternguard if they have Hellfire loaded.

But the melee resist will help tacs or any other squad if they get put into melee/tied up and it will benefit them the most when they are fighting against power weapons. It also would work on both the offensive and defensive end because not only are you increasing range damage but you are also increasing them from taking more melee damage if they so happen to get flank by units like Banshees that tear through heavy armor units and further more in retreat. It could save you from having to instantly retreating your tacs or ASM's when in a dire situation but still give you a bonus range damage to have a further advantage against enemies at a distance once you defended off the melee threat. With ASM's like I said earlier, it can buff their melee defense since they are a melee squad and at the same time buff their melta bomb giving you a safer option to jump in a mob and having a higher chance to get out safely or stick around and fight through until support can come to help. Then again the new sacred standard in the next patch is going to work very well with FTE, I am sure it will most likely be a over powered combination for a mid game power up but we will see.
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3083
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Dark Riku » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 6:35 pm

Phantom Revenger wrote:
The problem with it giving melee resist instead of melee damage increase is that then the two effects don't work in unison
That's interesting, seeing how the effects don't work in unison atm either.
User avatar
sk4zi
Level 3
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon 08 Apr, 2013 11:29 am

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby sk4zi » Fri 19 Sep, 2014 11:51 am

i didnt read the whole wall of Text but i actually agree with zato what i read.

its too expensive for what it does.
75 red IS much in the early game.

other T1 Globals are far more effective.

really i main FC for years and it never was an engagement winner.

25% is not that much. Use Yer Choppas! gives 35% AND ridiculous melee skill.
true its only Melee damage but also that "you cant do spacials vs that squad anymore"

thats more for the same price
same with other T1 globals which are far more better.
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Torpid » Fri 19 Sep, 2014 12:42 pm

sk4zi wrote:
25% is not that much. Use Yer Choppas! gives 35% AND ridiculous melee skill.
true its only Melee damage but also that "you cant do spacials vs that squad anymore"

thats more for the same price
same with other T1 globals which are far more better.


It's more for the same price if you use FTE exactly how you use UYC - a melee unit buffer, however FTE has more utlity than that, UYC cannot be used on things like sternguard, plasma devs, missle tacs, las-devs or terminators.

It could be used on a libby though if orks had one, man, UYC on a libby would kick ass.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
User avatar
Forestradio
Level 5
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sun 13 Oct, 2013 5:09 pm

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Forestradio » Fri 19 Sep, 2014 3:05 pm

FTE is versatile but SM and the FC in general seem to have a lot of versatile stuff so it definitely could get a straight up buff or some sort of specialized benefit (more inspiration as already suggested, suppression resistance, small damage resistance, small melee skill buff?)

There's pretty much only three times you benefit from both ranged+melee damage:
t1 tacs shooting/flaming down an approaching melee unit. With FTE they'll cause enough damage to allow them to punch down the enemy unit.
ASM jumping in, throwing their melta bomb, and engaging infantry.
Ranged terminators punching vehicles and shooting stuff. But at the same time ranged terminators probably won't beat anything in melee with FTE on that they wouldn't already.
Tex
Level 4
Posts: 909
Joined: Sat 27 Jul, 2013 9:33 pm
Location: Canada

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Tex » Sat 20 Sep, 2014 5:58 am

FTE is right where it should be.

Pop battlecry and pop FTE. Now you have tacs, devs, asm, or shotgun scouts instantly doing 35% more damage. Translate that to sternguards in T2 with hellfire rounds focusing on a hero or a Pdev attempting a big shot from FoW...

Problum?
User avatar
HandSome SoddiNg
Level 3
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed 16 Oct, 2013 5:57 am

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby HandSome SoddiNg » Sun 21 Sep, 2014 12:28 pm

Tex wrote:FTE is right where it should be.

Pop battlecry and pop FTE. Now you have tacs, devs, asm, or shotgun scouts instantly doing 35% more damage. Translate that to sternguards in T2 with hellfire rounds focusing on a hero or a Pdev attempting a big shot from FoW...

Problum?


FTE on TH FC/ FTE on SG under BG killing Shees/Sluggaz alike /FTE ASM/VG/LC AT shredding infantries. Np at all
Batman V Superman : Dawn of Justice 2016
Wonder Woman/Justice League 2017 Movies, WB/DC bring it ON !!
User avatar
Cheekie Monkie
Level 3
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu 09 Jan, 2014 2:58 pm

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Cheekie Monkie » Wed 24 Sep, 2014 9:08 am

Question: does FTE also affect abilities like melta bombs and scout grenades?
Playing truth or dare with Diomedes: You dare? YOU DARE?!
Tinder with Diomedes: THINK YOU ARE MY MATCH?!
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Torpid » Wed 24 Sep, 2014 12:41 pm

Likely, most damage buffs do. Crack shot affects plasma grenade damage IIRC.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
Zato
Level 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri 31 Jan, 2014 8:59 am

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Zato » Wed 24 Sep, 2014 7:43 pm

Cheekie Monkie wrote:Question: does FTE also affect abilities like melta bombs and scout grenades?

Yes because they are considered range damage. Not 100% sure about grenades though but I am positive about melta bombs.
Tex
Level 4
Posts: 909
Joined: Sat 27 Jul, 2013 9:33 pm
Location: Canada

Re: For The Emperor(FC Global)

Postby Tex » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

embolden affects grenades, so I would assume FTE and crackshot would.

With that said though, more dakka, waagh, cdb, etc, do not effect the damage of stikkbombs. Weird

And yes, I did test this one, not just saying it

Return to “Balance Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests