Patch 2.3.1 (Tentative balance changelog preview)

[Caeltos]

More of an "leash" range. Say, cast range is 6 radius - but it tracks for 8 radius but not more.

[Nurland]

Max: iirc FoS didn't get the intended duration reduction.

[MaxPower]

@Nurland:

but the power cost is way higher then it used to be, iirc its 70 now used to be 40 right?

[Nurland]

Well that is true

[Atlas]

I think that for Flesh Over Steel we can keep it as it is but it should also stun the FC for the same amount of time.

It'll be fine that way because you're basically FoSing yourself.

[saltychipmunk]

why not just make the powerfist power melee to offset the fact that the weapon currently is an all in one av option that costs no population.

hell most commanders are lucky to just get a weapon that does melee heavy for 40 -50 power
(warboss , plague champion, farseer, arguably chaos lord , hive tyrant, etc). So being able to stun a tank AND bitchsmack it into oblivion (or at-least get a few easy slaps in) is a pretty sweet leg up on a weapon that really has no downsides .

but then again you can argue that those commanders have other gear that makes their melee heavy options more effective in other areas.

the point im getting at is maybe the weapon is too specialized against vehicles while still being a pretty bad ass generalist weapon.

or just remove foS for something else.

then again , i really dont have many issues with the vanilla fist and actually liked how it was hard to use vs kiting vehicles.

because it made it perfectly viable vs walkers and careless players but having it bug out against moving targets meant it wasnt an all in one easy way to snare and kill things that were actively avoiding him.

[Cyris]

More of an "leash" range. Say, cast range is 6 radius - but it tracks for 8 radius but not more.

That sounds great (pending specific ranges)!

[Nurland]

@saltychipmunk I might be nitpicking but I don't think Chaos Lord has a heavy melee / AV weapon?

[lolzarz]

He does not. Neither does the Brother-Captain.

[Cheekie Monkie]

He does not. Neither does the Brother-Captain.

That awkward moment when you just got Elite and tried to smack that walker with the Daemon Hammer...

[saltychipmunk]

@saltychipmunk I might be nitpicking but I don't think Chaos Lord has a heavy melee / AV weapon?

whups

i always thought the lightning claws were melee heavy, oh well ive been wrong in the past.

[Torpid]

oh well ive been wrong in the past.

Are you suggesting someone hasn't been wrong in the past?

[krimson]

1. Should webways remain only for one race and that too for 50 red.. when lol FTE and the Drop pod cost more . Basically providing innumerable times instantaneous transport to one race in a game of map control..providing no penalty for retreat or losing battle and giving innumerable opportunities to kill capping squad. Webways have good health and are invisible...making it time consuming to detect and destroy...giving eldar time to gain vp as no one caps with a webway nearby..THIS IS NOT JUST A BALANCE ISSUE..THIS BREAKS THE GAME ALL TOGETHER

2. Wraithlord balance wrt to other walkers...no melee resistance loss or melee damage loss when upgrade with ranged weapon. AV is long range. I am not sure of their default melee is half that of two melee weapon dread

3. Free ripper squads

[saltychipmunk]

wraith-lord is fine , if its recall its bright-lance cant really fire on the move and the shuri pult doesn't have an ability or a good damage type

unlike most upgrades on the other dreads

[Nurland]

BL fires on the move with 100% accuracy.

[Ace of Swords]

And his shuriken catapult provides a shitton of anti-infantry damage aswell.

It's actually faster to bash gens with the wl in ranged than melee when you get that.

[Nurland]

Shuri WL has a bit more ranged dps than an AC Dread. 5 less range though.

[Torpid]

It seems to be quite a bit less effective at bleeding models though, although maybe that's due to the races you typically get both vs. Does the AC dread fire in significantly shorter bursts (thereby doing more damage in a shorter period of time), does it have less scatter somehow (is that even something that can be influenced)?

[Nurland]

The shuri is prolly moar steady dps and the shuri wl has part of the dmg in the wrist mounted cannon so that should spread the damage a bit. Not sure is the shuri itself scatters the damage somehow.

[Crewfinity]

also it seems like the assault cannon dread fires at a specific model for the entire burst, so more focused damage on models rather than spread out over the squad? i could be wrong though

[Atlas]

also it seems like the assault cannon dread fires at a specific model for the entire burst, so more focused damage on models rather than spread out over the squad? i could be wrong though

Yeah pretty sure this is the case.

[Cyris]

Amusingly, the Assault Cannon ends up feeling more like a Sniper Rifle for that reason It's definetaly good for picking off midels, while by contrast the Chaos Dreads autocannon tends to do more effective dps (because of it's aoe) but not pick of models as quick.

[saltychipmunk]

BL fires on the move with 100% accuracy.

really its always wonky for me , unless the enemy dread is not in charge range (not talking about accuracy , more fire rate) but alas i am rusty with eldar so i defer to you on this

[Bahamut]

just a funny fact.. Twin-linked lasscannons are 75% accuracy on the move

[Arbit]

AFAIK that's pretty typical of tank/transport mounted weaponry, probably as a concession to their ability to kite and general high mobility.

[Dark Riku]

Is there an ETA on the next patch?


I don't feel like explaining too much so you do with this feedback as you wish:

Space Marines
The Sacred Standard will cost 150/50 while the RA's Damage Synapse (120/35) does the exact same thing for the Tyranid roster...
(Minus the on death effect. Something that shouldn't be factored in in the first place since losing your commander is never a good thing, especially in 1v1.)

I thought all on death effects were going to get reworked since they are counter-intuitive? Like the death explosion on the PC.
Make the Battle Cry better while he has the banner equipped?
I wouldn't suggest a better % of damage buff as that would most likely become bonkers with the powers sword, etc.
I'd give Battle Cry an extra AoE damage reduction effect while he has the banner equipped and remove the on death effect.
Something like 5-10% dmg reduction or it can give % dmg reduction equal to the FC's level.
It can cost 140/25-35 depending on what way you go with it.

* Advanced Healing heals for 1,5% of the units max health instead of 2%
No idea why this already very expensive and niche wargear is getting a nerf :/

Please make the Drop Pod back to what it was before. It was niche but very useful and that's just fine.
Things that I wanted to see done about it is the drop time getting reduced, yes it's possible. Maybe drop to 175 red.
I don't see how this version will ever be useful.

Chaos
I don't think "Let the Galaxy Burn!" needs even further nerfs, I thought it was just fine how it was.

Iffy on the KCMS changes.

Eldar
* Singing Spear damage increased from 90 to 100
This buff is not needed at all.

* Pathfinder upgrade cost from 50/10 to 65/15
I think the cost is just fine. Eldar T1 is pretty power intensive as it is. (I can't believe I'm saying this)

* Dark Reapers weapon range increased from 41 to 44
This powerhouse of a ranged squad does not need a further increase in range at all.
Their range is already above standard range. If anything, their range should go down and their FoF should be taken away.
It contradicts the fluff very much and also isn't good for the balance.

* Avatar damage increased from 205 to 240
Any particular reason why this powerhouses become even better with his default attacks?
His abilities are already devastating as is. He doesn't need to get stronger with his normal attacks.

Wraithlords perform to well with their upgrades. Remove melee resistance when they get a ranged upgrade.

Orks
* Warboss Spiky Armor cost increased from 100/20 to 100/30
That seems like an overnerf. 25 power should be fine for this wargear.

* Warboss Boss Pole cost reduced from 140/25 to 115/20
This wargear does a lot for the Ork blob. It should stay at 25 power.

Something not in the notes. Please nerf the weirdboy warp vomit by a bit. That thing is still too strong considering the weirdboy himself, race, the fact that it's a default ability, etc. I'd take away 1-2 seconds of the stun. The other option is to take away the kb.
That would screw over the whole nuke or other damage potential set up with the kb though so I don't prefer this option.

Tyranids
* Warrior Brood & Venom Brood size increased from small to medium
You want missiles, etc to hit these things? °_O A Tzeench dread will just annihilate them...
This will mess up and randomise Tyranids engagements too hard. Keep them small.

I have to check up on the ranged dps of the Ravs. People say it's too high. Will edit when I have had the chance.

Imperial Guard
* Inquisitior Crossbow cost reduced from 110/25 to 110/20
This wargear is an uncounterable Chains of Torment in T1! It does not need a cost reduction at all!
Especially considering all the control abilities the Inquisitor has to her disposal.

Grey Knights
No comments on GK's due to lack of enough experience with them.


Synch Kills
I think we could allow all units to do synch kills again now that they have been reworked as they are in the dev.3 build.
To my understanding: synch kills will only happen if it's the last model in the squad to die.
It's still % based so won't happen 100% of the times. I'm not sure what the % is atm though.

Edit1: Super units: - removed GUO issue.
Edit2: added Wraithlord issue.

[Dalakh]

Please make the Drop Pod back to what it was before. It was niche but very useful and that's just fine.
Things that I wanted to see done about it is the drop time getting reduced, yes it's possible. Maybe drop to 175 red.
I don't see how this version will ever be useful.

Chaos
I don't think "Let the Galaxy Burn!" needs even further nerfs, I thought it was just fine how it was.

I agree on both of these. The drop pod is a pretty niche global and now it's even more niche because you want to use it to reinforce at lower cost which is not very frequent for SM but on top of that now you can only use it if you also need a tac squad.

As for let the galaxy burn : when you see what it does to T2 nids blob under synapse it's kind of underwhelming.

* Pathfinder upgrade cost from 50/10 to 65/15
I think the cost is just fine. Eldar T1 is pretty power intensive as it is. (I can't believe I'm saying this)

* Dark Reapers weapon range increased from 41 to 44
This powerhouse of a ranged squad does not need a further increase in range at all.
Their range is already above standard range. If anything, their range should go down and their FoF should be taken away.
It contradicts the fluff very much and also isn't good for the balance.

Well the cost increase on the pathfinder gear is fine because the initial cost of rangers was reduced by 5 power. I guess this comes in line with the sniper nerf.

I like this change on the dark reapers, you trade DPS to make this squad a second line ranged squad (which makes a lot of sense fluff wise, if you really care about the fluff). And it gives them a more specific feel which is great.

Imperial Guard
* Inquisitior Crossbow cost reduced from 110/25 to 110/20
This wargear is an uncounterable Chains of Torment in T1! It does not need a cost reduction at all!
Especially considering all the control abilities the Inquisitor has to her disposal.

I agree there again, if for some reason you find this awesome wargear underwhelming for the price maybe increase it's range or raw dps but the inquisitor is already the champion of low power T1 into banewolf... is this really necessary ?

Certain Super Units
* Great Unclean One damage increased from 160 to 200
* Avatar damage increased from 205 to 240
Any particular reason why these powerhouses become even better with their default attacks?
Their abilities are already devastating as is. They don't need to get stronger with their normal attacks.

I thought this was in reaction to the walkers melee resistance which means that melee walkers can duke it out with a melee unit that costs twice as much and I'm not even talking about carnifexes.

[Nurland]

Well GUO loses splash but gains 40 dmg per hit extra so that should be a nerf? Right? I mean it had a 40dmg per hit splash and if that goes and it gets 40dmg per hit extra it should do the same single target dps but no splash. Right? Since I am under the inpression that splash affects also the model that gets hit?

[Ar-Aamon]

No, no the Spiky Armor cost increase is justified. Adds a good amount of hp, nice hp reg and on top of that WB wrecks stuff in melee even greater. Basically its the Blessed Aegis and the Purified Blades put in a single armor.

[Phoenix]

Still 30 power is a lot of money in t1 for an armor upgrade. I would rather adjust it at 25 power and lower the additional health or the health regeneration by a small amount.