GK Build orders?

[Ven]

so i've been playing a lot of GK recently and i cant help but notice the lack of casts with them in, or for that fact people playing them, so i didnt really know all too many build orders other than the triple storms in to rhino, but while that gives you great mobility on some maps you need power more than mobility, so i decided to go full cheese with my build.

i go with an extremely heavy T1, this is my current build order

Strike Squad -> 2x Puragation squads -> Interceptior squad.

i usually put my strike in meele stance in most cases for the distruption (and more damage than their ranged) early on now thats a LOT of power spent, and i usually get my BC his fore sword in T1 aswell so thats 150 power or so, and thats a lot. i usually somewhat counter this by only getting squad upgrades in T2 and maybe a purifier squad depending on what i've lost.
you might think that i'd be vulernable to most vehicle at this time, well once T2 hits my first power purchases is the psycannons for my purgation squads which, considering there is 2 of them is a pretty good counter to pretty much any unit provided they dont get jumped, they're like a squishy ranged nob squad. i then get my justicar for my interceptiors for furious intervention, and it depends what im facing if i get psybolts for my strikesquad or not, i dont get them a ranged weapon upgrade due to the bug, and justicar is a good counter for jump squads and things like bloodletters in combination with dark excomunication.

and then i go T3, and again depends who and what im facing and on what map. usually i get termies or a lulraider as the psycannons are good enough AV i dont use PLDs

so is there any other build orders that work? or am i stuck with the horrible upkeep of T1 forever?

[Ace of Swords]

What game modes? That build order is a sure loss in a 1v1, and that's because in T1 because 2 purgs aren't really worth it as any hero can easily counter them, and in T2 to keep all your T1 units relevant you need to spend a shitton of power on them ontop of the already high popcap/upkeep which means you won't get a dred,puries or even a libby out.

Without counting that if your opponent is smart enough a fast vehicle will crush any hope of victory you have.

Im gonna give you a build order from the next patch on since alot of squads have been improved or fixed

Triple ist > rhino will always be viable, it's self explainatory why, fast tech and good enough burst to contain your opponent, except that in the next patch you'll only be able to fit 2 ist into the rhino so the third one will have to go around capping/harassing

SS > IST > purgs > bc armor or inties > bc armor, pretty standard works like the sm 2 scouts,tacts into t1.5, except that you need to buy the bc T1 armor quickly if you go purgs or just after purchasing inities as it's stupidly cheap and makes the BC ridicolously tanky.

SS > SS > bc armor > drop gens, with the tweaks SS became quite good and also now in T2 they psycannons do quite alot of damage to vehicle and can be considered reliable AV and AI, in this build you could complement it with a rhino for kiting potential aswell as to upgrade it to have a quick vehicle with AV in T2 and put pressure on your opponent gens before he can react.

[Ven]

What game modes? That build order is a sure loss in a 1v1, and that's because in T1 because 2 purgs aren't really worth it as any hero can easily counter them, and in T2 to keep all your T1 units relevant you need to spend a shitton of power on them ontop of the already high popcap/upkeep which means you won't get a dred,puries or even a libby out.

Without counting that if your opponent is smart enough a fast vehicle will crush any hope of victory you have.

Im gonna give you a build order from the next patch on since alot of squads have been improved or fixed

Triple ist > rhino will always be viable, it's self explainatory why, fast tech and good enough burst to contain your opponent, except that in the next patch you'll only be able to fit 2 ist into the rhino so the third one will have to go around capping/harassing

SS > IST > purgs > bc armor or inties > bc armor, pretty standard works like the sm 2 scouts,tacts into t1.5, except that you need to buy the bc T1 armor quickly if you go purgs or just after purchasing inities as it's stupidly cheap and makes the BC ridicolously tanky.

SS > SS > bc armor > drop gens, with the tweaks SS became quite good and also now in T2 they psycannons do quite alot of damage to vehicle and can be considered reliable AV and AI, in this build you could complement it with a rhino for kiting potential aswell as to upgrade it to have a quick vehicle with AV in T2 and put pressure on your opponent gens before he can react.

oh nono i never play 1v1s infact if i were to do a 1v1 i wouldnt even consider GK a viable race , i usually play 3v3s and 2v2s and usually with this build order i melt pretty much everything and it allows me to push gens quickly stopping my opponent to get an early vehicle before i have psycannons. i personally dont value many of the T2 units that highly, dread is nice but its just too expensive for me to consider, as i'll almost always get the grenade laucher and most of the time ill get the dread claw, thats about the same amount of req and power spent that i could be spending on a T3 unit

[Ace of Swords]

Well it depends, but sure you build can work in team games provided that your mates get gens up fast for you, and yes the dred is expensive, but especially the GK one can almost go toe to toe with T3 units such as a thornback carnifex, purifiers IMO overlap abit with interceptors, so I usually get them when I don't go inties in t1 so the melee and damage sponge spot is reserved for them, the libby is great against blobs, forest wrote a guide (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1199) and Im sure he'll expand in this thread, the VA is again self explainatory, he can solo walkers and tanks, he's also a great counter to zoans,weirdboys and stuff alike.

Like forests says, and I agree, GK T2 is great, and might even be better than their T3 in alot of cases, although this applies more in 1s and 2s as in 3s termies can be better supported by your mates LRs and other healing/reinforcement supports.

[Atlas]

Has the SS -> IST -> Node-> Ints -> Mantle of Terra(Canticle) build become so old school that no one uses it? I've been trying GK out a bit for the fun and realized that it's actually not that bad. I think the canticle is what really makes the build even close to viable not only for the extra jumps but for the ability cancel. It seems to work the best vs SM and IG, which depend on their abilities to counter melee in T1. I can't tell you how many times I've killed a sent these past few days because it thought it had a stomp in reserve.

In T2, with the justicar you can then do the chain disruption on the blobs of doom. Beyond that, the build is pretty open. In 1v1s you can peel the strikes off the main force to go cap as they'll 1v1 most things that meet while not being super crucial to the fighting. The ISTs provide amazing single target dps and can hang back while the Bro-Cap and the Ints draw all the enemy fire.

As for AV, the VA is the obvious choice, but you can get psycannon purgs as well which just melt everything. Las-rhinos are also an option. Regardless, you have Ints grenades to snare a vehicle (provided they don't bug, which they haven't yet for me).

^ All that is subject to change though with the new patch. Especially the bit about purgs and ints. Still, if you're just looking for something to try out then I don't think that's a bad place to start.

[Forestradio]

2 purgs is a bit risky in larger game modes in t1. For your build I'd get rid of the second purg in t1 and get some gens (or some more BC gear, his first regen armor is quite awesome). 1-1-1-1 is pretty versatile and should handle most t1 compositions.

Another thing you might want to try is the "Noisy" build: 3 IST, 1 SS, 1 purg [optional 1 rhino]. Very effective in larger game modes vs tanky heroes, and you can use the BC to counter suppression if you time your WATH right.

Purgation are a very valid t2 purchase. They should be a follow up after your first t2 purchase(either dread or puries or BC gear). Get their psycannons ASAP, the flamers won't work very well in t2 when ranged damage starts getting a lot higher.

Ace already linked my libby guide, imo the GK libby is criminally underused, he provides a lot of powerful options for the rest of your army.

The claw dreadnought is the best variant. Usually you won't want the extra nade launcher on top unless you're sticking with the bolter or for some weird reason got the plasma cannon.

Double SS is glitched at the moment. But I still like it.

Oh and if you ever want to throw the meta completely out the window do 4 IST in t1, straight into t2. Combine it with an ally who can counter-initiate, and watch the high-powered flashlight beams chew through everything

Has the SS -> IST -> Node-> Ints -> Mantle of Terra(Canticle) build become so old school that no one uses it?

The old "meta" for GK was endless IST into interceptors into canticle, however since the implementation of the Vindicare Assassin other t1 and t2 options have been buffed while interceptors had their OP Nemesis Focus removed and remained unchanged (until the upcoming patch).
This build _can_ work, it does best against SM and to some degree eldar but it's definitely no longer the go-to build.

[Surprise Attack!]

In team games as GK I usually open with 5 IST squads.

I'll link a YouTube replay where I picked up this excellent strategy.

[Ven]

In team games as GK I usually open with 5 IST squads.

I'll link a YouTube replay where I picked up this excellent strategy.

lol a bit of a late reply, this was posted 2 months ago.

[Torpid]

Assuming the event/action you are attending/undergoing is a positive one then better late than never!

[Surprise Attack!]

I am have replay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzdT1jc1wQ

Some amazing play from Phantom Land. Imo amazing build to transition into triple psycannon purgations.

[Roey]

Faced a rather infuriating build today.

3x stormtroopers, 2x lascannon rhino. Noise marines were pointless as he jumped into rhinos and ran away. Las cannon woud have been focused down just like my grenade launcher tics (they did best damage but not enough).Dread would have died and just left me feeling very pressured overall and I dint kmow what to do. Use that.

[Torpid]

Faced a rather infuriating build today.

3x stormtroopers, 2x lascannon rhino. Noise marines were pointless as he jumped into rhinos and ran away. Las cannon woud have been focused down just like my grenade launcher tics (they did best damage but not enough).Dread would have died and just left me feeling very pressured overall and I dint kmow what to do. Use that.

Plague marines and bloodletters?

[Roey]

Never got the chance Wasted resources on a havoc and noise marines then got gen bashed unfortunately..

[Surprise Attack!]

Faced a rather infuriating build today.

3x stormtroopers, 2x lascannon rhino. Noise marines were pointless as he jumped into rhinos and ran away. Las cannon woud have been focused down just like my grenade launcher tics (they did best damage but not enough).Dread would have died and just left me feeling very pressured overall and I dint kmow what to do. Use that.

This is a bit off topic, but I know you posted a thread about learning CS, which happens to be something I'm doing right now. One of the issues with Chaos I've definitely noticed is the lack of flexibility when it comes to units. What I mean by this is that there are few(and the ones that can be called flexible are less flexible than true examples of flexibility) flexible units available to a Chaos player. In other words, Chaos has some great unit variety, but while that's cool and appealing to someone watching the game, it's far less cool when you realize that each and every one of your units is incredibly specialized and as a result do not perform so well outside their comfort zone.

Take Tacs for instance, the backbone of most SM armies. Tacs can be upgraded with a variety of different weapons that drastically change the role they play and the kind of damage they are capable of doing. Going vs GM blobs? Np, get a flamethrower. A wild chaos dreadnought appears? Get them a rocket launcher. Etc...

Compared to CSM, the Tac is so much more versatile that it's hard to imagine that these two units are so closely related in the lore.

In fact, it's one of the reasons why I do not really like CSM, even with the new slaughter ability. For all the options CSM get, they're just different options to kill infantry faster, particularly heavy and super heavy infantry.

So, to get to my point, I feel that in my experience I've learned that a good Chaos player needs one or both of these skills(amongst many others):

1) The ability to predict what your opponent is going to field.
2) The ability to make do with potentially bad purchases.

Obviously, #1 is preferable to #2, but oftentimes unless you are truly very good at this game, the answers can still be highly unpredictable. As a result, noise marines might seem like a good purchase in T1, but in T2, you might realize that a Havoc would have had similar results, only you could have put Mark of Tzeentch on the Havoc and more easily deal with that Dreadnought the enemy has running amok in your base.

On a final note, while I do not think that Plague Marines are a particularly amazing unit, I personally actually find them to be a very, very safe purchase for a Chaos player in T2. They do okay AV+snare and some DoT to be mediocre in all scenarios. The plague marine aura is actually rather useful at slowing things down. Lastly, they're rather tough, which means that they don't bleed resources and can hold their own in melee. So, in the future, if you do run into a situation where you aren't sure what to do in T2, Plague Marines. Even if the enemy doesn't get a vehicle, PMs can do decently as a frontline unit, and if they do decide on vehicles, PMs can discourage serious advances.

On top of all this, having PMs means you can opt for the more flexible autocannon Havoc, since it is definitely more flexible than the lascannon. Even if the autocannon havoc might lack the burst to effectively kill a vehicle, it can definitely scare your opponent from using it. Remember, an unused unit is as worse than a dead unit since it takes up popcap and upkeep.

[Roey]

Indeed, I find myself whishing bloodletters had heavy(?) melee again and could do respectable damage to vehicles. Then they would have been my first purchase. Plague marines dont fit in with my pre heresy thousand sons, but I suppose ill have to make an exception.

Back on topic anyway...

[Dark Riku]

Blood letters do more than respectable damage to vehicles with their very high power melee damage.
Giving them heavy melee would be a very bad idea.

[Nurland]

BL seem to overperform a bit anyway atm.