Does Apo /Armor of Purity need a slight adjustment?

[Element]

The upgrade
Armor of Purity | T1

100 25 20

Reduces the cooldown of Heal by 35% and increases the Apothecary’s health by 100.

But I have almost never found the need for a 35% decrease in the Apo's heal cooldown... In fact.. when I get it... it usually comes off cooldown before I can actually use the ability anyways because I wouldn't have enough energy to use it, unless I get the Improved Medical Equipment... however Improved Medical Equipment is just so much more useful when utilizing in continuous sequence of for say Full Auto, Combat Stimulants, and the heal all at the same time; and with only a 100 health increase which is like nothing at all...

I believe that if there were...(these are all separate btw)
1. An addition of decreasing the energy cost on the heal so that there isn't such a delay nullifying some of the gap between the cooldown decrease and energy cost deficit caused by getting the upgrade, it would become more viable
2. Some additional feature along the lines of forsay improving the health regeneration rate provided by his aura of nearby allied units/ or enlarging the regeneration radius... it would become worth taking
3. Just more of a health increase in general because that 100 is nothing

However, (tentative-Emphasis on tentative, I am aware) patch notes say there is 5s decrease in the cd of the apo's heal possibly coming) if that stands... there really is no reason to get this upgrade at all because 30 for me is pretty adequate.. 25 is going to be pretty awesome... roughly 16s is going to be me waiting for the next 7 seconds for my energy to catch up in regards to the rapid succession of this heal anyways...

Well those are my findings on this upgrade... what are some of your findings when it comes to playing Apo? Do you get it often, why or why not? When you got it, how well did it work out for you?

[lolzarz]

Try using power axe and fight more in melee with assault marines; see what happens. Purification rites may help as well.

[Vapor]

The "problem" is that it's a t1 wargear but isn't sooper useful in t1. The idea to make it reduce heal's energy cost makes sense given the role of the wargear.

[Element]

Try using power axe and fight more in melee with assault marines; see what happens. Purification rites may help as well.

Hmm.. that's definitely a means of getting it to work.. its just that.. only becomes available in t2 when its supposed to be a t1 upgrade so I kindu find that it being an applicable T1 upgrade to be somewhat misleading.. and respectively taking away an upgrade option until then

The "problem" is that it's a t1 wargear but isn't sooper useful in t1

Pretty much what I'm trying to get at here... and even in t2.. it has to compete against the armor of apothecarian and combat stimulants which I'd argue to be much more beneficial in more cases as having the apo in the front lines tends to be a bit risky and granting a 30% increase buff and breakage of suppression to an allied unit or actively supporting in the healing of your entire force on the field... is hard to compete with in regards to scaling as well as role playing usage as the game progresses.

[Ace of Swords]

It has always been and always be the best wargear for apo, spamming heals is what he does the best and that's what he has unique among commanders, even those with healing abilities. this armor was now a must in most cases because of the longer CD on heal (it getting reverted back to it's retail values with 2.3.1) meaning that armor of purity is going to be again very effective from the begin to the last minutes of the game, having such a low CD on heals permits you to use it twice on asm or asm-tacts and to pretty much spam it on termies, meanwhile it also makes all other armors more viable since this one is less of a must.

And also 100 hp is quite huge for the apo.

[Element]

It has always been and always be the best wargear for apo, spamming heals is what he does the best and that's what he has unique among commanders, even those with healing abilities. this armor was now a must in most cases because of the longer CD on heal (it getting reverted back to it's retail values with 2.3.1) meaning that armor of purity is going to be again very effective from the begin to the last minutes of the game, having such a low CD on heals permits you to use it twice on asm or asm-tacts and to pretty much spam it on termies, meanwhile it also makes all other armors more viable since this one is less of a must.

And also 100 hp is quite huge for the apo.

I like your different approach on how you see the wargear, and though I may not necessarily agree for it to be the best wargear for the Apo, I certainly do understand what you mean by how this is one of the most unique upgrades to the Apo in the allowance to spam heals, which is what I was trying to adress. In T1 he can't really spam the heals because of the lack of energy to do so yet it is a T1 upgrade choice, and my question is really along the reasons of why?

However, I do believe that that I should not overlook that healing spam potential later down in the game as you are appointing out

[Ace of Swords]

Simply because it would be too powerful in T1, can you imagine being able to land 2 heals or more to ASM or tacts in cover with the DPS enemies can put out in T1?

It would be too powerful, in t2 and later it's a different story though, DPS skyrockets and you can force off the apo,asm or tacts before his heal can recharge or before he gathers enough energy to heal again.

[Element]

I get the idea of balancing it for T1 purposes, I'm saying like, why is it an choice option at all in t1 when it really its more like a t2 upgrade because that is when it actually works? 100 hp seems a bit unsubstantial when looking to take the upgrade just for that reason when you can get something like the Sanguinary Chainsword, or you can get purification rites or vials that will have a direct impact on the battle in T1.

[Sub_Zero]

You bring a lot of damage against the Apo and that more frequent heal doesn't mean shit. Apo is only strong in T1, come T2 he is the worst commander in the SM roster. This armor is just a joke. It should be moved to T2 and adjusted accordingly, no point at all to be in T1. 100 additional HP is another joke.

[Element]

You bring a lot of damage against the Apo and that more frequent heal doesn't mean shit. Apo is only strong in T1, come T2 he is the worst commander in the SM roster. This armor is just a joke. It should be moved to T2 and adjusted accordingly, no point at all to be in T1. 100 additional HP is another joke.

I disagree on him becoming the worst commander come t2, his support abilities are quite strong. Though I would say his is the weakest commander along the lines of standing on his own...but back on topic I don't necessarily believe that the upgrade needs to bE moved to t2 but more rather adjusted so that their this is some incentive to take it...

Usually when you buy an upgrade your looking to have it make a noticeable direct impact on the game or that it will be easily ascertained because another wargear is also becoming available to make it work... that is not the case for this wargear... it has to wait an entire tier, and because of that... I feel something g should be done about it... that's what I'm trying to say

[Dark Riku]

(This post is made with the 2.3.1 patch in mind.)

The armor upgrade is fine as is, the design is good. It gives a low HP increase since it's on a support commander and the cooldown decrease is a really big deal. Just don't expect it to synergies with an upgrade that gives you another active ability, like the Customized Storm Bolter or the Purification Vials. Although they can work together come T2 if you invest in the Improved Medical Equipment.
The Armor of Purity might not work to it's full potential for the Apo at level one, but it does work to it's full potential once the Apo is levelled or in combination with the Improved Medical Equipment and that's just fine. Even though it's not used to it's full potential at level one, the decrease in cooldown can still be very useful.

The problem lies with the apo's heal being weaker than it should be. It should start out as ~140HP/model at the start and increase with 15HP every level instead of 30HP every 2 levels. (This is still a way weaker heal than when it had HoT.)
Not much reasoning, etc on this subject since it's is not the purpose of this thread.

[Element]

(This post is made with the 2.3.1 patch in mind.)

The armor upgrade is fine as is, the design is good. It gives a low HP increase since it's on a support commander and the cooldown decrease is a really big deal. Just don't expect it to synergies with an upgrade that gives you another active ability, like the Customized Storm Bolter or the Purification Vials. Although they can work together come T2 if you invest in the Improved Medical Equipment.
The Armor of Purity might not work to it's full potential for the Apo at level one, but it does work to it's full potential once the Apo is levelled or in combination with the Improved Medical Equipment and that's just fine. Even though it's not used to it's full potential at level one, the decrease in cooldown can still be very useful.

The problem lies with the apo's heal being weaker than it should be. It should start out as ~140HP/model at the start and increase with 15HP every level instead of 30HP every 2 levels. (This is still a way weaker heal than when it had HoT.)
Not much reasoning, etc on this subject since it's is not the purpose of this thread.

I would be in approval of the apo starting out with a 140 hp heal and having a 15 heal increase per level rather than 30 as that would certainly make a noticeable impact in regards to timing with this war gear. The extra 30 is equivalent to time in regards to when the next heal is needed. And a 15 hp increase per level is gradual rise of health compensation in regards to "inflation"

[Dark Riku]

I can't make any sense of what you just said.

[Cheekie Monkie]

Whilst I do agree that purity reaching its full potential in T1 would be overpowered, I'm still disappointed by the fact that the Apo remains the only hero in the game with no real T1 armour choice - a suboptimal choice is hardly any choice at all.

[Element]

I can't make any sense of what you just said.

Hmm.. do you mean
1.You did not understand what I was saying g because how I wrote it was confusing and distorted the message?
So I can clarify better
Or
2. What I was saying made no sense logically? to which I'd ask for you to go a bit more into depth as to why/I'd try also once again to clarify more in regards to my logical reason behind it (though of course you may still end up disagreeing, which is fine)

[Nurland]

Deleted some posts from the thread but Riku meant that he couldn't quite catch your drift Anomaly (so option 1)

[Element]

Deleted some posts from the thread but Riku meant that he couldn't quite catch your drift Anomaly (so option 1)

Alright.

Riku made a statement/observatiom/opinion saying that one of the problems lie in that of the starting heal for the apothecary being weaker than it should as of now being 110 and suggesting to make it ~140.

He also said that another problem lies in the apothecary gaining 30 more hp for each 2 levels he gains and that 15 hp increase every level would be better.

I was saying that I would be in approval of that because as of how 140 hp rather than 110 hp would compensate lack of energy to use the ability with time because of the 30 extra hp on heal (though very miniscule but still slightly helping the situation without breaking the balance Like Ace initially brought up to which many others as well as I would agree.)

Then I said I would be in approval for the more gradual 15 hp increase in his heal as he levels rather than 30 every 2 so that (while you wont feel a huge difference like 30 hp gain every 2 levels, you will still feel a gradual growth in his heal that counterbalances the gaining of the between levels 2/4/6 etc)

As of now, you become level 2 in the beginning if a 1v1 and you don't gain anything towards that of the base heal but more rather lose strength on the heal because your opponents units are leveling too which in essence is lowering the effectiveness of that heal, though given granted your units are leveling too.

Therefore its...
Your opponents units level-stat gains
your units level-stat gains
Apo levels-stat gains (but heal doesn't level)

Hence nothing was gained from the leveling of the Apothecary.

Leveling up to 2 and increasing the heal to ~140 would make it more of an upgrade choice to be taken in upper T1 where your about to gain that level--> energy; And in addition to energy, more health which I equivalate in this scenario to be the same as time before that next needed heal.

It's that space of time between heal and energy cost that is what I'm trying to become less dramatic so that the upgrade is viable in T1 at some point (Which I'm staying would be higher T1)

Hopefully that wasn't more confusing than it was before xD

[Dark Riku]

To be honest, I'm still confused about some points you are trying to make. But it doesn't matter as I think you agree with what I stated? That is, if we have the same thing in mind in the first place ^^