Patch 2.3.1 (Tentative balance changelog preview)

[Torpid]

@Atlas, yeah, I worded that incorrectly. It doesn't lower her range from her default sidearm of course haha. But it makes her a ranged unit with inferior range to 95% of the ranged units in the game. That's fine with the inferno pistol as it does mad damage in bursts and has a ridiculously good ability (which synergises with the IQ's hellfury global really well) as well as providing AV. The crossbow not so much.

[Wise Windu]

Any one know better?

I tried to look up info on suppression at the request of Forest, and I think I have a better idea of how suppression works now. So here's what I found out.

Obviously, all units have a preset maximum Courage value, most are 100, some have 200, some can't be suppressed. Every squad also has a courage_regen_rate, which seems to be 10 courage/second for everything I've seen. On top of this, when a unit is suppressed, it regains courage 1.3 times faster, so 13 courage/second.

Then, there is a global "suppression_recovery_threshold" which seems to be (through testing) the value at which things stopped being suppressed. It is 50 by default, so when a unit regains 50 courage, it stops being suppressed. Which means, when a unit stops receiving courage damage, it recovers after 50/13 = ~3.8 seconds to recover. Then it has to wait 5 more seconds to reach 100 courage (or 15 seconds for 200 courage) after that since the regen rate is lowered back to 10.

At least that seems to be the case from what I tested. I lowered the suppression_recovery_threshold to 10 and when units were suppressed, they recovered almost instantly when they were moved out of weapon range. Hopefully this helps.

[Torpid]

Thanks for the clarification Windu. That makes sense.

[Dalakh]

Any one know better?

Obviously, all units have a preset maximum Courage value, most are 100, some have 200, some can't be suppressed. Every squad also has a courage_regen_rate, which seems to be 10 courage/second for everything I've seen. On top of this, when a unit is suppressed, it regains courage 1.3 times faster, so 13 courage/second.

Yup the only units with different courage are Purifiers (200), Kasrkins and the Warboss (both 150) as far as I know.

[sebi.costa]

I think Kasrkin could use some balance changes on their melta gun upgrade.
Since stormtroopers have infiltration and their melta does 30 damage per hit/12.35 damage per second and they get 5 per squad.
And Kasrkin get only 2 melta guns per squad 50 damage per hit/20.59 damage per second.(they do get a melee boost 19 damage per hit/19 damage per second).
But i just dont see this upgrade being worth while, and its more expensive than the stormtroopers.

[Ace of Swords]

Anyone thinks interceptors take abit too much damage at the moment when jumping because of the delay? Especially from melee units (but from ranged ones and setup teams too)even more so if they are trying to escape, to fix the insta teleport issue I think they should be stunned for 1s (maybe 1.5s) AFTER the teleport instead of standing still for 1.5 before it, this way setup teams should be able to de-setup and start running but they won't be able to escape them, as far as their KB goes like this it would be more similar to ASMs and raptors when they have that short derpy moment of standing still after the jump before they start attacking.

And also, discussing it with forest, perhaps the jump should be instant in T1 and get the "stun" when they purchase the sarge as it gives them the knockback.

[Indrid]

The teleport delay is being reduced slightly for 2.3.1 Final, we'll see how it goes from there.

[Ar-Aamon]

So 2.3.1 is close?

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Nxt week? lol . else 1st week of November ?

[Indrid]

We'll hopefully have a Beta 4 which is feature complete by the end of October. Then that'll be in private (and hopefully short) testing to find bugs for release. It's coming, we swear! It's been held up by the modders starting their educational activities again after the summer, and it's a big update in its own right.

Why are the 2.3.1 betas not public?

We want to keep a consistent experience for the player base, especially the more casual players of the mod that don't necessarily use the forums or are otherwise not very active in the community. Didn't want to bombard people with new builds making it harder to find games and keep up to date, even more so if those builds have large issues/bugs.

I've not been casting games from the beta builds for this reason also.

[Cyris]

Great news, thanks Indrid!

Does Beta 4 imply there have been 4 internal beta builds on the 2.3.1 patch? Do the BOLD updates made in the origional post indicate the changes that were made between the initial beta and number 4?

Super excited for this patch to come out!!!

[Ar-Aamon]

Thx Indrid. Btw where is Lulgrim?!? Haven't seen him around for ages.

[saltychipmunk]

The teleport delay is being reduced slightly for 2.3.1 Final, we'll see how it goes from there.

saw that one coming for a while now. still doesn't really address the fact that the lack of any t1 disruption makes them far less useful (in t1) when compared to the offensive AND defensive benefits raptors, asm ,raveners and catachans.. get from having disruption.

still cant fathom why they are so expensive since that delay pretty much mimics the jump time for the listed units (minus cats) anyway

[Nurland]

Lulgrim is busy with his real life stuff.

[Indrid]

Great news, thanks Indrid!

Does Beta 4 imply there have been 4 internal beta builds on the 2.3.1 patch? Do the BOLD updates made in the origional post indicate the changes that were made between the initial beta and number 4?

Super excited for this patch to come out!!!

Yes there has been four internal builds, but B4 will be the first with everything in. I'm not sure if Caeltos has been keeping the initial post of this thread updated (and I would guess that it's not), so take it with a large warp-infused pinch of salt and await the full and final glorious notes when they come.

[lolzarz]

Would like to ask why do 3 squad leaders (kasrkin sergeant, tactical space marine sergeant, guardsman squad commissar) have identical weapon stats when the 3 squads do entirely different things.

[Cheah18]

Would like to ask why do 3 squad leaders (kasrkin sergeant, tactical space marine sergeant, guardsman squad commissar) have identical weapon stats when the 3 squads do entirely different things.

Well with respect to their roles, the fact they have different abilities/effects on their squads differentiates them. but yeh it is odd they all have the same stats.

[sebi.costa]

- Catachan pop from starting pop from 14 to 12
- Catachan max pop is now 15 from whatever (Only Sergeant, which adds +3)
- Reliable bleed and predictable on the losses you'll take
- Pretty much the same dps/survivability (Still figuring out the numbers)

What does reliable bleed mean?
Does it mean catachans will drop models like any other squad and stop fleeing with all their models at ridiculous low hp?

[Wise Windu]

Hopefully, yes. The number of damage sharing models is being reduced. The Demo man won't add a leader any more.

[sebi.costa]

Hopefully, yes. The number of damage sharing models is being reduced. The Demo man won't add a leader any more.

That makes me sad! Why nerf them like that?
Does the demo man still get that "better" shotgun? Or give the extra 25hp(+200 for himself of course)?

Also what is the leader model? : http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... han_devils
Is it the grenade launcher(old reliable) model?

I rly hope these changes to IG will make IG vs Eldar a bit easier and less micro heavy!(that match-up is so "unfair/hard" for the IG player, and kinda easy for the Eldar player)

Guys u have a bug in the codex: http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... e_champion
The plague sword for the plague champion does 0.01 dmg? o.O
(it does say 65 dmg in the war-gear description, but in the weapons section it says 0)

[ChrisNihilus]

Catachan are not cheap to reinforce, making them bleed normally will drain resourses quickly.

[Torpid]

Indeed, it will make them completely unviable if they get no other buffs to compensate. They were already very niche even after the last buff.

[Cheah18]

Yeah catas need some attention

[Wise Windu]

Does the demo man still get that "better" shotgun? Or give the extra 25hp(+200 for himself of course)?

They get the 25 hp, but the better shotgun was on the model that won't be added any more.

Also what is the leader model? : http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... han_devils
Is it the grenade launcher(old reliable) model?

Do you mean the one that won't be added? It's the "Demo man" model.

Guys u have a bug in the codex: http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... e_champion
The plague sword for the plague champion does 0.01 dmg? o.O
(it does say 65 dmg in the war-gear description, but in the weapons section it says 0)

Not a bug, that's how much damage it does. It's just that it applies the damage 'after' the hit and ignores melee resistance.

[sebi.costa]

Thx for the answers, but u should rly reconsider on the changes!
It doesnt matter how cheap u make catachens, if they cant do anything except disruption, then their worthless and eat supply. Artillery spotters are better than catachens at disruption and atm they cost less. I always find artillery spotters to survive longer than catachens.

[Phoenix]

I totally agree, catachans are a joke in the beta. They are 50 req cheaper now but they start with only 700 hp so they are about as squishy as burna sluggaz and cost power to reinforce. Even with both the demoman and the sarge they get about as much hp as catachans had to start out in 2.3. (1050).

[Atlas]

Patch coming on the 5th of November?

[Dark Riku]

Looks like some people are forgetting Catachan's big damage output, their power melee in T1 and massive utility.
Smoke that has no drawback, being a close combat counter (in melee), explosive shot: close ranged disruption,
ol' uneliable: setup counter/disruption/extra damage output/unit finisher, option for a massive bomb that can easily wipe squads,
come T2 the option for soft AV and ambush possibilities with infiltration.

AND as it stands now they might only be 300/30! ...

[Phoenix]

Well you only get the full utility by purchasing the demoman though and then you have spent 50 power on squad with only 825 hp (less than sargeant gm) that has to be at least in shotgun range to do their big damage output.

Maybe my initial post's tone was a bit harsh ("catachans are a joke") but i just do not see why their health got decreased.

[Torpid]

Looks like some people are forgetting Catachan's big damage output, their power melee in T1 and massive utility.
Smoke that has no drawback, being a close combat counter (in melee), explosive shot: close ranged disruption,
ol' uneliable: setup counter/disruption/extra damage output/unit finisher, option for a massive bomb that can easily wipe squads,
come T2 the option for soft AV and ambush possibilities with infiltration.

AND as it stands now they might only be 300/30! ...

Great, except all that is utterly useless since they will get wiped in seconds and when they don't they'll lose so many models that all the wonderful economic changes to IG to make them transition to t3 sooner will be made useless and instead any IG who buys cats will be stuck in T2 forever. Their damage is also largely useless vs ranged units due to their range. So yeah, they're epic anti-melee... Except IG have no problem vs melee anyway thanks to sentinels and their heroes.