Bots: Good Practice or Bad Habit Creator?

[Ghorm]

Hey there!

I have been watching this game from afar for some time now since I heard about the ELITE mod. Decided to take the plunge and now I'm hooked. I've got a few hours in, I am so far below noob I look forward to being one.

Watching some 1v1 pro matches, reading guides on the forums, etc to try and work on basics. But I don't want to waste anyone elses time just yet with a live match.

My question is; Will playing against bots help get the basics down? I have been playing against Normal bots but they put up a minimal challenge. Should I be able to conquer the highest level bots before stepping into a live game?

Great game, I look forward to playing with you all.

[Nurland]

I would suggest switching to humans asap. I mean you can learn some basics against the AI but for example it puts no pressure on your gens and most of the time just tries to brainlessly cap everything. So it doesn't really give you a realistic picture about what is to come when you play against human opponents.

[Roey]

I agree, bots are vastly different to how a human plays/what a human 'non-noob' would do. Best way t go is to join/start matches entitled with 'beginners only' (making sure your opponents are beginners too haha) and joing the elite beginners group on steam..


Also, welcome to Elite

(I am allowed to say that right? Haha)

[Nurland]

Ofc you are

[Ghorm]

Thanks for your response.


I didn't notice before but yeah, they don't defend their gens, nor do they make a point of attacking mine, which seems contrary to what I watched in the vods.

[Nurland]

Yup. Human opponents usually pressure gens pretty hard. And with with more concentrated armies that split up capping in between engagements.

[Ven]

i would suggest only fighting against bots to get to know how certain abilities and units work in combat, but thats about it.

there are several posts on the forums about learning how to play etc, i'd suggest to read those, and perhaps even watch some players play live. watching a streamer such as myself might help you understand certain unit choices etc from a 1st person perspective rather than the obs/casters POV.

it's also a good idea to join these groups on steam aswell:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DoW2EliteMod

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DoW2_Elite_Beginners

[Surprise Attack!]

I think playing with bots in this game is necessary at this point in time, due to the lack of a matchmaker and the lack of a large enough community.

If you're starting fresh, with no knowledge of how this game works, and you haven't even played the campaign, you're probably best served starting a 1000 VP game with AI just to see how things work. Understanding how cover works, how some abilities work, what grenades do, and how certain abilities work is absolutely crucial. Playing with AI will also allow you to familiarize yourself with the units, technology levels, and costs associated with all of these things. And last, but not least, it will allow you to learn some of the basic hotkeys.

At this point in time, a random "noob 3v3" hosted on the public lobby will probably be occupied by people with at least 200 hours of playtime(not 10 hours) and if you don't even know how your chosen faction counters vehicles, you're going to be in a really tight spot. This isn't to say that people are smurfing, but due to the age of the game, "good" players generally have over 1000 hours or more.

Playing vs AI is an adequate(though not ideal) substitute for the initial 10 hours of floundering around most people spend when learning a new game.

[Ghorm]

Unfortunately all I can do at work is play against bots. But hey, at least I can practice at work right?

[Nurland]

Yeah. You shouldn't complain ^^

[Roey]

Jheeze I want to be able to practocw at work. I agree with Suprise attack however and recind my previous comment, depending on your 'noobyness'.

<100 hours - Play campaign and against bots

>100 hours - Maybe start to venture online.

Im a big supporter (regardless of game, format or console) of playing the campaign for the first time on the hardest difficulty. I enjoy the struggle and beating it, but more importantly it teaches you to get 'familiar' with the hardest difficulty instead of 'familiar' with the medium difficulty. Like either going straight into army at 18 (and being lowest rank) or going through Uni, then going to Army (as an officer)... Ish.. I thought that might be a good analogy.

Anyway! Play campaign on hardest difficulty to learn basics.

(what does tl;dr mean?)

[Nurland]

You can play one or two campaigns and some practise matches against the AI before going online but you shouldn't be too scared about it.

[Nurland]

The campaign will give you a rough idea how things work, counters etc but the MP is VERY different from the campaign.

[Ven]

Jheeze I want to be able to practocw at work. I agree with Suprise attack however and recind my previous comment, depending on your 'noobyness'.

<100 hours - Play campaign and against bots

>100 hours - Maybe start to venture online.

Im a big supporter (regardless of game, format or console) of playing the campaign for the first time on the hardest difficulty. I enjoy the struggle and beating it, but more importantly it teaches you to get 'familiar' with the hardest difficulty instead of 'familiar' with the medium difficulty. Like either going straight into army at 18 (and being lowest rank) or going through Uni, then going to Army (as an officer)... Ish.. I thought that might be a good analogy.

Anyway! Play campaign on hardest difficulty to learn basics.

(what does tl;dr mean?)

i'd just like to expand on this a little. 100 hours is a good time to start playing online on ELITE. but you can start playing retail at any time really, ELITE has a much more competetive community and thus players are better, on retail you'll find the less experienced players. so if you want, after finishing the campaign play some online matches on retail (unmodded version, launch it through steam rather than the ELITE .exe file.

you'll just need to be prepared to things to be different and players to be better when switching over to ELITE again.

Oh, and here are some links to casters and streamers. i know some people dont learn very well from watching streams or casts but im not sure if you do or not.

ELITE Casters

Indrid casts - Biggest caster of ELITE right now

Maestro Casts

Red Rupee - think hes dead though :L

I would link crazyman, but he doesnt do DOW2 anymore D:

ELITE Streamers

Just to name a few

Max power - One of the bigger streamers, streams every few days or so.

Ven - I stream almost every day and i've been streaming with max for a bit aswell now.

Batpimp - Streams every other day, doesn't actually talk much though.

There are a few others, but those 3 are the streamers that stream the most often. if you join the steam group i linked in my last post, you'll be notified if someone starts streaming.

[Ghorm]

Indrid's casts taught me a lot so far, as well as watching Lt. Ekul maneuver the Eldar the way he does. I do learn from watching others, but not nearly as much as when I actually play.

Thanks for the retail suggestion, I'll try that out. In my head no one played retail only ELITE.

[Dalakh]

I learned a lot about eldar play when I started from Adila's stream. Unfortunately I don't think he streams these days.

[Atlas]

I learned a lot about eldar play when I started from Adila's stream. Unfortunately I don't think he streams these days.

Which is a shame because he's masterful :<

[Surprise Attack!]

<100 hours - Play campaign and against bots

>100 hours - Maybe start to venture online.

Don't give yourself a set amount of hours. It takes far less game time(10 hours or so?) to get used to a single commander in a single faction, learn build orders, unit counters, unit/wargear/ability costs, how certain abilities work, hotkeys, and get a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of a particular army. A few hours of supplementary replay watching will help as well.

After you figure that single commander out, go out and play some games until you get better.

(what does tl;dr mean?)

Too long; didn't read

[Ven]

I learned a lot about eldar play when I started from Adila's stream. Unfortunately I don't think he streams these days.

hes been streaming a little over the past few days. if you're part of the ELITE steam group you'd know that hes been streaming.

[Dalakh]

Well usually I close stream announcement before I read them.