Rhino Heavy Bolter

[Cheekie Monkie]

It's just occurred to me that I never really get the heavy bolter on the rhino. When you're in the kiting zone as you often are when driving the rhino, the burst as well as the range of the lascannon comes out on top.

Furthermore, much like aspect of strength the lascannon offers so much more utility than its alternative. Let's take a look at the weapon choices for each of the races (in my opinion):

SM: A heavy armour race reduces the impact of piercing damage. I'd consider grabbing the bolter against scout heavy builds, but these often come with a razorback. Furthermore, the game has become increasingly walker friendly, so I'd want to invest in a lascannon as an insurance policy.

Nids: The lascannon is great at popping warriors, and not half bad against the smaller bugs either.

Guard: Lascannon. Great at duelling sentinels and harassing chimeras. Need more testing for both weapons on catachan bleed potential.

Chaos: Lascannon. Similar reasons to SM. Insurance policy vs vehicles - at least that bloodcrusher isn't going to chase you around the map.

Eldar: The only race which I'd seriously consider getting the heavy bolter, since it bleeds models so well. Nevertheless, the threat of vehicles remains.

I notice that I've listed the 'vehicle insurance policy' a number of times and perhaps my fear is unjustified and paranoid. Nevertheless, it's often best to be safe than sorry - that dreadnought to control my purifiers has just become a lot less attractive with a mobile source of AV running around.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I do realise that the bolter rhino does more damage than a razorback at a fraction of the cost, but damn, that lascannon man.

So I suppose my question is whether the lascannon is too powerful for its cost or whether the heavy bolter needs some love. Considering the fact that the lascannon offers fantastic AV potential as well as decent anti infantry bleed, my suggestion is the former.

P.S. Also give some love to Aspect of Fleetness

[Torpid]

Yeah. I think this is also made worse by the fact that in order to do aggressive rhino rushes or similar plays you need the vehicle armour so that you don't get killed by melee squads, but buying the vehicle armour AND the bolter takes a lot of time and if you need to buy a rhino too from your base then the strategy is 100% unviable. I could see myself using the bolter more alongside a fast-tech or to punish their big t1 that didn't bash me if I could get the vehicle armour and the bolter quicker. I think making the vehicle armour research faster wouldn't be bad...

Still leaving it with a pretty niche purpose though as GK don't don't excel at that sort of rush strategy really, I mean the rhino itself is 30 power in t1 after all.

[Ven]

Yeah. I think this is also made worse by the fact that in order to do aggressive rhino rushes or similar plays you need the vehicle armour so that you don't get killed by melee squads, but buying the vehicle armour AND the bolter takes a lot of time and if you need to buy a rhino too from your base then the strategy is 100% unviable. I could see myself using the bolter more alongside a fast-tech or to punish their big t1 that didn't bash me if I could get the vehicle armour and the bolter quicker. I think making the vehicle armour research faster wouldn't be bad...

Still leaving it with a pretty niche purpose though as GK don't don't excel at that sort of rush strategy really, I mean the rhino itself is 30 power in t1 after all.

GK dont excel at tech rushes? mate did you even see my games vs atlas in BT5? unless thats not what you mean by rush.

as for the topic... errr, maybe. but lets fix the rhino in T1 first before fixing its T2 stuff.

[Broodwich]

The las is so much better because it has a small aoe + 100% fotm accuracy, so it still hits infantry plenty. Plus it has that extra punch for av that gk generally need. I think i got the bolter once and regretted it

[Dark Riku]

P.S. Also give some love to Aspect of Fleetness

More damage to (S)HI and jumping over objects not enough...?

[Cheekie Monkie]

P.S. Also give some love to Aspect of Fleetness

More damage to (S)HI and jumping over objects not enough...?

Yeah I've had some second thoughts about this. I think the analogy is closer to the FC wargear - just because everyone goes for the massive beatstick doesn't mean that the other options aren't viable.

as for the topic... errr, maybe. but lets fix the rhino in T1 first before fixing its T2 stuff.

I'd rather air it all out in the open now so that we don't have to backtrack in the future.

[Atlas]

Cheap shot but I mean c'mon man, it was one game!

Anyway, on topic I do feel that the lascannon outperforms the heavy bolter due to it's relability and versatility. I find myself asking though that if the other transports in the game had an av option, would I take that? I honestly would, or I would at least consider it. The Falcon's AV damage, however minor, is still pretty attractive when facing other light vehicles or even other transports.

It's a tangent from this discussion I know, but one that came to mind when reading the OP. In terms of balancing it out I think the problem would mostly be in the lascannon. The bolter on paper isn't bad imo, it's the same as the razorback's. It's just that the lascannon can provide AV on a race that has it hard to come by outside of psypurgs and VAs at that point AND can still hit even infantry reliably. It also is the closest to a tank GK has atm. This is for 30 power ( more if you include armor though).

[Broodwich]

Its a light tank in t2 (with las) that can carry infantry around

hell i'd pay a lot more for that than its ridiculously low cost as is

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Not sure. My eldarfobia is more than justified.

Ontopic: Can't much to add to the thread. The lasscannon is simply better than the Heavy Bolter in most matchups because the GK AV design and options. Buffing the Heavy Bolter (except if you make him OP) it won't change this.