Does the Icon of Khorne wargear need to be changed?

[Ven]

now im going to say this first; for its cost of 100/20. the icon of khorne is perfectly fine, its a very nice budget wargear. but this thread isn't about me thinking the wargear being OP or UP. but rather, im going to propose we change the icon of khorne on some way, on a functional level.

like i just said, the icon of khorne is a good budget wargear, but thats all it is right now. all his accessories seem to do roughly the same thing, mitigate damage or give him some kind of sustainability. why is that? why is ALL THREE of his accessories in favor of sustainability? there is also the point that, none of these accessories are terribly useful in a ranged build CL.

Deamonic Visage used to be the go-to accessory for ranged builds, but now it activates thorough melee hits, which i would consider a SIGNIFICANT nerf.
when i purchase the combi flamer, i almost always use my CL in ranged stance, and usually my armor of choice with a ranged build will be armor of the inferno. so for accessory.. there isnt anything really i can get.

the CLs accessories are very... bland, and like i said; completely useless in a ranged build. i propose we change the icon of khorne in such a way so it isnt just another sustainability accessory for him, all of his other wargear choices are so intesting and provides a nice dynamic to how heis played, his accessories do not.

these are some of the ideas i thought up:

Idea #1
Change the Icon of Khorne so that, each successful ranged weapon hit increases his accuracy by X ammount for X seconds stacking up to X ammount of times, and each successful melee hit increases his attack speed or melee skill by X ammount for X seconds and stacks X ammount of times.

something like this would be a kind of sustainability accessory, but instead of mitigating damage, it increases his damage done basically the longer he stays in an engagement.

Idea #2
Change the Icon of Khorne so that every time the CL is hit in melee comat, it has a X% chance of spawning a bloodletter, similar to his shrines. also, gives a X% chance to spawn bloodletters next to the CL when he uses an ability, which is where the ranged build usability comes in.

i'll try to think of more ideas when i wake up, but let me know of what you think regardless.

[Nurland]

First of all. You can use CL in ranged stance but you should be alternating ranged and melee stances a lot or at least a bit when using combi-flamer. And combi is more for punishing stuff that tries to kite CL than to switching CL into a ranged hero.

Then to visage. It works excellent with Combi. It actually gives him some value as a counter iniator. While it activates on hit it also is a bigger debuff now.

Dark halo is also decent if you are intent on keeping the CL in ranged stance.

I really do think IoK is quite fine atm. The idea #2 sounds too dependant on rng. Idea #1 sounds a bit iffy too. Not sure if CL needs more dps.

[Torpid]

IoK still has a niche that the other wargears don't fulfill. It's the best combo with the LC and armour of the inferno and it's cheaper than the other wargears while still making him incredibly difficult to solo even with his default weapon and so that + the combi flamer can be extremely punishing to have running around as a capping unit in 1v1. Can't beat him in melee, bleed to him kiting and can't even use garrisons vs him :S

[Ven]

i just feel like his accessories are all very similar and quite boring as like i said they all serve a similar function, whether it be mitgating, stopping damage, or healing. ive only ever bought the icon a few times and all those times have been when i felt the CL needed something, but i was on a budget. like i said.

usually i go one of two builds with my CL.

i either go armor of rage + LC + dark halo. the tanky high dps build that is awesome at killing pretty much everything but i usually only get it vs HI races like SM.

or i go combi flamer + armor of the inferno, usually vs LI races or on long maps. you can guess this is the build i usually go with in about 70% of my games.

so there is no accessory to compliment that build; they're ALL melee based other than the dark halo which i dont want to use as i want energy for Let the Galaxy burn! and immolate, and kill the weak if i want to knock stuff back and heal him.

i will occasionally get armor of hate if i feel like im having trouble dealing with a commander like a MWB warlock or TH FC. and baseball bat to counter initiate. icon of khorne doesnt really fit in anywhere and its boring. hell, since 2.3.1 i havent even purchase the deamonic visage even once due to the change of it acvtivating though melee hits, and i've seen it a lot less on other CLs aswell.

im not saying that the icon NEEDs to be changed, but im saying it would be nice. because right now, its boring as heck and like torpid said only fills a niche, thats its ONLY purpose, his other wargear can do several things for him, icon only does one and usually isnt worth the purchase when you could just save for something a lot more interesting and useful.

[Torpid]

Sure it's "boring" but it fulfills a niche that your other proposals don't seem to. I don't know why you want to take away that niche he has now with that wargear. It's definitely better in 1v1 than teams too.

Nothing wrong with niche-gears, in fact nothing wrong with niche-units either. Channeling runes and fire dragons are prime examples of such.

[Black Relic]

Icon of Khorne would be awesome to give health on kill, maybe about 5-7%.

You can also change the health given based on either the race of the targets health i think. Like if the unit kills max health is say that of a termagant CL get 3% of his health back or if the health is like a Tactical Marine, about 6%, a Nob about 10%. I think that is possible since I have a few abilities based on health percentage in my mod.

Or something easier would be race. Orks being 4% nids being 3%. Or armor type. Infantry=3%, HI= 5% etc.


Or even better would be the health gained increases as the Chaos Lords health goes down. Starts form 1% health gain per hit and goes up to 5%

100 - 80% health = 1% health gained per melee hit.

79 - 60% health = 2% health gained per melee hit. etc.

This why this accessory gains potency as the Chaos Lord levels. You can even makes a units dps work like that. Pretty freaking cool.

[Nurland]

I like the new Visage more than the previous one tbh. Or well "new" visage as it is the same as in retail.

[Superhooper01]

Seems fine to me pretty cheap and allows the cl to stay in combat and tank

[Daddy]

I think I get some of what Ven is saying. Chaos Lord's accessories are quite bland compared to the other Tanky commanders.
CL gains nothing substantial with his accessories to really adapt to skirmishes. Just boring "buffs" that are very ineffective in late tiers of the game. Or in 3v3's

How very un-becoming of a Herald of Chaos.

[Vapor]

Sorry if this sounds like a cop-out, but the Chaos Lord is a pretty boring commander overall, both globals and wargears, and that's what you're signing up for when you pick him. If you want somebody less bland, there are plenty of spellcaster heroes to choose from. He is plenty effective in his basic role of just tearing things apart.


...well, aside from khorne worship, that shit is fun

[Daddy]

Seems fine to me pretty cheap and allows the cl to stay in combat and tank

Seriously... he already tanks in t1 with Dark Halo. Does he really need a cheap way to "tank" more in t2 onwards? By then there is no point in tanking because of the sheer damage output everything else. Don't forget that Brocap, Hive Tyrant, Warlock all get Invulnerable abilities and that makes them instantly far superior at tanking.

When Vehicles start coming out, what's this accessory going to do??..or when elite t3 SHI's start coming out.


It would be nice to get an accessory to support other areas.

I mean why not make IoK give the CL a buff like the bro-cap purified blades. Increase his damage, or combat effectiveness instead.

[Superhooper01]

Actually daddy they have changed his ability to tank with the harness of rage and mantle of hate as he doesn't get energy back from hits anymore,instead gives energy to units around him which only helps raptors and letter tbh so he ability to tank has been reduced by a lot as he cant stay in a tie up as well as his shield isn't as effective now

[Torpid]

Seems fine to me pretty cheap and allows the cl to stay in combat and tank

Seriously... he already tanks in t1 with Dark Halo. Does he really need a cheap way to "tank" more in t2 onwards? By then there is no point in tanking because of the sheer damage output everything else. Don't forget that Brocap, Hive Tyrant, Warlock all get Invulnerable abilities and that makes them instantly far superior at tanking.

When Vehicles start coming out, what's this accessory going to do??..or when elite t3 SHI's start coming out.


It would be nice to get an accessory to support other areas.

I mean why not make IoK give the CL a buff like the bro-cap purified blades. Increase his damage, or combat effectiveness instead.

You're looking at it from a blatant team game perspective where everything is blobbed up and mindlessly thrown at one another.

Try looking at it from a 1v1 perspective and imagine maps like siwal at the contested VP down in the south or fedrid at the lower ground at the contested VP between the two farms. Putting a combi flamer/IoK/LTGB CL around there is a nightmare for the foe. You have the rest of your army blobbing up at the other part of the map and so if the enemy dedicates too much to kill the CL they concede whatever ground the main army pushes yet a CL with combi-flamer LTGB and IoK can easily defeat all T2 melee and ranged squads and forces off suppression teams in an instant and due to the combi-flamers high fire on the move damage you can't muck around kiting him all day like you can vs a hive tyrant. Therefore the foe is forced to dedicate significant forces solely to dealing with a wandering CL. It's a lose-lose situation.

[Nurland]

@Super. Harness restores energy to both CL AND the surrounding allied units.

Ppl should really check the Codex more before making these kind of claims.

[Dark Riku]

Ppl should really check the Codex more before making these kind of claims.

Nah Nurland. It's always so much fun to see people talk about balance based on nothing but air.

[Ven]

Actually daddy they have changed his ability to tank with the harness of rage and mantle of hate as he doesn't get energy back from hits anymore,instead gives energy to units around him which only helps raptors and letter tbh so he ability to tank has been reduced by a lot as he cant stay in a tie up as well as his shield isn't as effective now

the harness of rage used to give a 10% damage buff, it was removed; that was the only that was changed. the armor of rage restores energy to the chaos lord and surrounding allies, which is why it synergises so well with the dark halo and LCs.

while Icon might fill a niche and there is nothing wrong with it, couldnt that niche be preserved at the same time as changing the icon? like have the icon give him lifesteal and maybe debuff a models speed hes hitting in melee for like 10-15%? that would be kinda cool. icons cost would need to go up, but i wouldn't mind.

[Superhooper01]

cheers for the info Nurland and thats good to hear think the way it adds energy to units around me throw me a bit:p. lately im seeing a lot of weird ideas for balance like people are just making posts for the hell of it maybe u guy could ask Riku,Torpid or Nurland etc before u post to see what they feel i do that and they answer my topic so maybe try it if unsure of what u are asking

[Nurland]

I don't want to discourage new ideas or representing them. I would like to see just ppl know the facts before suggesting stuff.