Just a few things i feel needs to be changed.

[PhatE]

Add broodnests to this list. The HT is already a wicked hero to begin with and since the addition of Capillary Towers as well as endless swarm, it's becoming tiresome.

A reduction on the range of the reinforce is fitting.

[Dark Riku]

How much more then? Because it already got reduced.

[Ven]

i think if anything the brood nest should get a req cost. the medical bunker costs power/req and red, dont see why the brood nest doesn't

its easier to kill than the medical bunker but eh. i think atleast a 100 or 200 req cost couldn't be that bad for the brood nest considering what it does.

[hiveminion]

"It's easier to kill than the medical bunker but eh"

Like, WAY WAY easier. Broodnest is fine. It's a temporary benefit for the Nid player and it's not like the reinforcements are free. If you can't kill the nest you shouldn't win the engagement.

[Nurland]

Medi bunkers aren't that hard to kill, take longer to set up and strain your eco more than nests.

Broodnests are way more spammable and while being easier to to kill I have found killing them not really that easy since they have the reinforce radius of 40. Transports have 40 but no hp regen. Beacons have reinf. radius of 25 and bunkers 30. I just feel like this global gives maybe bit too much for hundred red.

Nid reinforcements aren't free but Hormas and Termas are still super cheap and they don't drop models easy due to ES since it gives you die last models. Raveners are basically the only unit that can hurt you bleed wise. That on top of all the possible synapses like Zoan hp regen, HT IS and towers. It gets ridiculous when these buffs are stacked.

[hiveminion]

Bunkers can be repaired which can make them almost impossible to destroy if you can't force of the guardsmen, which is tough when they're reinforcing off the bunker they're repairing. Nests have no such problems.

Nests also have a big and awkward footprint so they usually have to be placed in open spaces where they can be shot at or flanked. The reinforcement radius won't stop you from shooting the nest with artillery or flanking around with a flamer unit, and both methods will kill the nest in seconds.

Gaunts are cheap but they die like flies and give a decent amount of red. Since their hitpoints got nerfed they've become even more vulnerable to AoE than ever before, which even if you haven't provided it yourself is handily provided by the Warriors accompanying them. Those guys also pop like ripe blisters to missiles these days.

Every faction in the game can pull off buff combos that can get pretty sick, I'd say Nest+Zoan regenerate, combined with possibly Synapse buffs is pretty circumstantial (Nids aren't at their best defending anyway).

PS. according to the Codex it takes 15 seconds to set up a Nest but only 10 to set up a Bunker. The Bunker also takes up less pop, grants twice as much health regen in a slightly bigger range and has no upkeep just like the Nest.

[MaxPower]

The problem is that brood nests are way more spammable than bunkers, granting a whooping 40 reeinforce radius and nobody in their right mid would place a broodnests in a spot where it could be taken down by an artilley unit.

You place them somewhere behind your army, preferably behind shot blocking terrain.

Also you can capture bunkers and turn them against the enemy, you can't capture a broodnest though.

Did I forget to mention that they are dirt cheap on a race that has a somewhat questionable (read: strong) eco system.

To sum it up: Broodnest too good, nerf plox.

[Ven]

Bunkers can be repaired which can make them almost impossible to destroy if you can't force of the guardsmen, which is tough when they're reinforcing off the bunker they're repairing. Nests have no such problems.

Nests can be repaired. which makes them arguably superior to bunkers in teamgames.

(Nids aren't at their best defending anyway)

you clearly haven't seen the zoan/broodnest/hivenode combo....

PS. according to the Codex it takes 15 seconds to set up a Nest but only 10 to set up a Bunker. The Bunker also takes up less pop, grants twice as much health regen in a slightly bigger range and has no upkeep just like the Nest.

but nids have an undisputedly better T1 than IG, bunkers just help the IG T1 a bit more. broodnests end up providing basically the same, for no power or req cost on a race that already has a strong T1

[Torpid]

It takes 10seconds for the bunker to finish building but it doesn't provide any regen/reinforcement at that point, it's just a building. It tkaes longer than 5seconds to research the med-bunker upgrade on top of that, so it does drop slower.

The bunker costs more but to compensate for that its regen is better than that of the nest's, but the nest is T1 which honestly is probably the strongest thing about the nest, in 1v1 the nest makes the IG vs HT MU impossible, like, just impossible. IG don't get anything that can square off against a BSWB + 3x terms with IS HT near a nest at their farm. And it really isn't as simple as "just bash with a flamer GM". The nid will have better map control, the nid is faster than you etc etc.

Anyway the bunker is far far harder to kill than the nest. The bunker nearly always requires dedicated artillery to kill it whereas any unit can kill an isolated nest. That's a pretty big difference, but that's why you pay so much resources for the bunker.

Tyranids are easy of red though, far more so than IG who tend to not lose that many models and when they do it tends to be GM who give very scant red. IG aren't known for killing tonnes of models either, at least at high level. If they do they've already won.

Nids are probably the best race in the game at defence come T2 due to zoans+venoms. Venoms not having the most amazing range for an AV team and being vulnerable to focus fire I find they're far better on defence than offence, where you have the advantage of sight range and knowing where your enemy's stuff is. The enemy must come to you since you have the best artillery in the game, but then you have the best counter-initiation in the game in the form of genestealers anyway, plus termagants with their improved synapse hardly lack ranged damage. Gaunts in T2 definitely don't die like flies.

IG are good on defence, except they lack artillery so enemy artillery will smash their defence to bits and they have to adopt guerilla warfare.

With that all said though, I think the nest should simply have 30 reinforce range if it doesn't already and it should be T2 onwards, instead of buildable in t1.

[Ven]

With that all said though, I think the nest should simply have 30 reinforce range if it doesn't already and it should be T2 onwards, instead of buildable in t1.

agreed.

[Nurland]

Medi upgrade is 20 seconds iirc.

[enasni127]

With that all said though, I think the nest should simply have 30 reinforce range if it doesn't already and it should be T2 onwards, instead of buildable in t1.

agreed.

+1

[Daddy]

Leave nests alone, ^^. Lots of ways to destroy them. It really isn't an issue for me. Nobody plays nids anyways

Repair bunkers tho, that SHYTE is waaay OP.

[egewithin]

Merciless Witchblade does all these in T1, fine. You are right to complain. But what about T2? Or T3? Just let it be a bit powerfull. It is not that a huge deal.

About that Bunker vs Nest. Bunker is far harder to take down. Do you know why? Because I can't select it to shoot! Right click serves to get insade of the bunker. I can take it down buy only units has ''attack groung'' thing. Eg : Plasma Dev, missile laucher...

The main point of the Nest is the spamming problem. We can fix it with a cooldown increase. Maybe 3 minutes? (Overkill? It might be) We really don't have to change anything on it for now. It will be useless with nerfs or too strong with buffs.

That Hive Node thing. Yeah. I thing it needs a health decrease so flamers can take it down with less efford while the gas/pheromone/whatever it is called is active.

[Ven]

Merciless Witchblade does all these in T1, fine. You are right to complain. But what about T2? Or T3? Just let it be a bit powerfull. It is not that a huge deal.

by that logic, it needs to be changed to a T2 wargear, not be left alone.

[SirSid]

The Merciless Witchblade has been a problem for alot of players for a long time , i can't see it getting changed at this point TBH. It can be countered and getting both the blade and shild in t1 is a massive power sink , with a race that has power problems in t1. It's hard to deal with for sure but i feels it's ok in the state it's in with the eldar army ( just barly but yes it's ok )

I can't comment on the rino cuz iv never seen 1 i did not instantly kill... ever. In the games iv played it's UP as fuck. I was not around when it got it's armour change. Perhaps not knowing it got SHI armour made me engage it like always and just gib it . IDK i will have to play more with this new meta before i say anything about it.

as far as the brood nest goes. If been saying it's OP as hell for a long time but no 1 seemed to care or lissen before , what's changed ? are people cheezing with it now ? ususaly i wait till t2 to get 1 since i can lock it down much easy and establish a foward base to dive attack off. Also i feel the other 2 nid commanders are much better than the HT so for me dealing with a brood nest is not that big a deal, a nid army is best when constantly on the move. something that both the HT and broodnest negate so i feel it's ok. Again however i will wait a bit to make a firm choice on this since im not up on the curent meta game.

[egewithin]

Merciless Witchblade does all these in T1, fine. You are right to complain. But what about T2? Or T3? Just let it be a bit powerfull. It is not that a huge deal.

by that logic, it needs to be changed to a T2 wargear, not be left alone.

No, by the logic, it maybe a bit strong for T1, but it has nothing to do in T2 or T3 as well as in T1. A solution insted of complaining, lets make it much stronger and move it to T2. But it won't give the same taste as before. Hmmm...

I am not a huge fan of making everything into perfect balance. There must be some differences between races. Some good and some bad stuff I mean. That is the taste of this game. I will never complain about Chaos factions strength in T2. You know, everything you can buy in T2 is just too damm powerfull. (But not OP still) But it has to be like this. This is Chaos as you know. They are created to be powerfull. There is no place for weakness in Chaos.

If we really (and I mean really) need balance, lets remove all 6 factions and just play with Space Marines. Doesn't sounds good right?

[Torpid]

Merciless Witchblade does all these in T1, fine. You are right to complain. But what about T2? Or T3? Just let it be a bit powerfull. It is not that a huge deal.

by that logic, it needs to be changed to a T2 wargear, not be left alone.

No, by the logic, it maybe a bit strong for T1, but it has nothing to do in T2 or T3 as well as in T1. A solution insted of complaining, lets make it much stronger and move it to T2. But it won't give the same taste as before. Hmmm...

I am not a huge fan of making everything into perfect balance. There must be some differences between races. Some good and some bad stuff I mean. That is the taste of this game. I will never complain about Chaos factions strength in T2. You know, everything you can buy in T2 is just too damm powerfull. (But not OP still) But it has to be like this. This is Chaos as you know. They are created to be powerfull. There is no place for weakness in Chaos.

If we really (and I mean really) need balance, lets remove all 6 factions and just play with Space Marines. Doesn't sounds good right?

Chaos T2 got huge nerfs in elite and their t3/t1 was buffed accordingly.

MWB scales well into T2/T3 through its special which is not only power melee but also tracking with the KB of any special making it great vs all knockbackable infantry, in fact, it even hits twice vs non-knockbackable infantry so it is good vs them too. And what do you mean by "MWB does all these in T1"? Does all what? The MWB and the Brood nest are quite different, for a start one offers reinforcement the other doesn't, one is a global costing solely red the other is a wargear which costs 35 power in T1.

[egewithin]

''MWB does all these in T1'' I mean he was complaining about MWB in the first post. He marked the problem with bold red colour.

[Ven]

''MWB does all these in T1'' I mean he was complaining about MWB in the first post. He marked the problem with bold red colour.

exactly. it wouldn't be a problem if it was T2. do you not see that's what i way trying to say?

the MWB as a T2 weapon would be fine. but it just does too much in T1 ALONGSIDE probably being the warlocks best scaling weapon. i mean, it does so much damage the fact that the witchblade of kronus does power melee is almost entirely ignored and people only get the kronus witchblade if they get providene and warpthrow alongside.

[Vapor]

[egewithin]

''MWB does all these in T1'' I mean he was complaining about MWB in the first post. He marked the problem with bold red colour.

exactly. it wouldn't be a problem if it was T2. do you not see that's what i way trying to say?

the MWB as a T2 weapon would be fine. but it just does too much in T1 ALONGSIDE probably being the warlocks best scaling weapon. i mean, it does so much damage the fact that the witchblade of kronus does power melee is almost entirely ignored and people only get the kronus witchblade if they get providene and warpthrow alongside.

Angry Space Elf build. Ehehehee... Now the problem is, MWB will lose to WB Kronus in T2. If it will give me some other bonuses, moving to T2 is acceptible. Maybe +20 energy to fit with Champions Robe. Or bonus health regeneration like 1,5 hp/s. Or insted of burning energy, stealing the energy from the enemy. Or did they changed it in elite that ability too?

[krakza]

Nitpicking but, it's Kurnous, not Kronus

My beef with the MWB is more theme based than balance based. It seems even the Eldar needed a hero with which the player could just right click and forget about, instead of needing to micro.

[enasni127]

Nitpicking but, it's Kurnous, not Kronus

My beef with the MWB is more theme based than balance based. It seems even the Eldar needed a hero with which the player could just right click and forget about, instead of needing to micro.

This is a general problem of the elite mod that gets worse and worse imo. Some races (in combination with hero XY) just roll over your army with exactly 0 skill - and they absolutely KNOW they will win and you/your factions has absolutely no chance to stop it no matter which build you play or how skilled you are.

IMO these factions are atm:

1. Grey Knights cause of their ******* SHI rhino. It's just OP and i will not listen to any other opinion here. SHI gets very little damage of setup teams and not every faction in this game has a good power melee counter. PLUS the rhino is by far too cheap and transporters on t1 grant too much mobility to a faction. PLUS the rhino is usually filled with units and so it's even harder to kill it or prevent the usual gen bash combo of rhino+purgation squad. PLUS you usually have enough trouble with killing their commander which is just a moving bunker.

2. Tyranids cause of some very "nice" HT builds and, as mentioned before, the broodnest. It was said here before but i repeat it: it's just impossible to win against nids in some MU's

3. chaos vs space marine feels exactly like that atm imo. Whenever I see casts or replays it looks like SM just can't stop chaos and loses every engagement if they aren't heavily superior in numbers. I'm not an expert here cause I don't play SM myself. It's just what I see and hear people saying.

Conclusion:

There are many many players who know which race they need to play to literally win a game on the loading screen and they abuse that hard. These special builds and tacticts have been known for a long time now but somehow there seems to be no need to change anything - especially if it's about chaos or chaos#2 (GK)


EDIT: just another example of perfect balance

I usually play IG but sometimes, when playing vs IG, I avoid the mirror match by playing eldar. The usual BS-Build is now to get a 3x dire avengers + WL and whenever you see IG coming you just cast destructor+immolate - if there should be anything left you just throw your grenades in. Both WL abilities have a very short cast time and good range and are way superior to anything IG's Inq has on t1 (but the Inq has horrible long casting times for weaker abilities...). In addition immolate deals crazy damage to buildings which MUST be nerfed. As soon as you reach T2 just get Wraith Guard and on T3 a D-Cannon. sure, IG has a chance to win this MU if they use spotters or the LG but as far as I think it's really easy mode on eldar side and very hard for IG

[egewithin]

Yeah, Rhino is a real problem. I think we should give HI armor insted of SHI. Not a huge deal, Sentinal has HI eather. But the biggest problem about Rhino starts at T2 where he gets his lascannon. It is so fast, it can always make hit and run to my Dread or Wraith. You can't just hit it. Also, Rhino play doens't fit with Grey Knight lore. If I will always make hit and run with lascannon and always reinforce my weak Stormtroopers, why they gave me shiny heavy power armors? I can accept Razorback play with Tech of Apo but GK created to fight heroic.

[Cheekie Monkie]

3. chaos vs space marine feels exactly like that atm imo. Whenever I see casts or replays it looks like SM just can't stop chaos and loses every engagement if they aren't heavily superior in numbers. I'm not an expert here cause I don't play SM myself. It's just what I see and hear people saying.

Not sure if heresy...

In your mind, what are some typical engagements in which SM gets utterly steamrolled by chaos?

[Torpid]

This is a general problem of the elite mod that gets worse and worse imo. Some races (in combination with hero XY) just roll over your army with exactly 0 skill - and they absolutely KNOW they will win and you/your factions has absolutely no chance to stop it no matter which build you play or how skilled you are.

IMO these factions are atm:

1. Grey Knights cause of their ******* SHI rhino. It's just OP and i will not listen to any other opinion here. SHI gets very little damage of setup teams and not every faction in this game has a good power melee counter. PLUS the rhino is by far too cheap and transporters on t1 grant too much mobility to a faction. PLUS the rhino is usually filled with units and so it's even harder to kill it or prevent the usual gen bash combo of rhino+purgation squad. PLUS you usually have enough trouble with killing their commander which is just a moving bunker.

2. Tyranids cause of some very "nice" HT builds and, as mentioned before, the broodnest. It was said here before but i repeat it: it's just impossible to win against nids in some MU's

3. chaos vs space marine feels exactly like that atm imo. Whenever I see casts or replays it looks like SM just can't stop chaos and loses every engagement if they aren't heavily superior in numbers. I'm not an expert here cause I don't play SM myself. It's just what I see and hear people saying.

Conclusion:

There are many many players who know which race they need to play to literally win a game on the loading screen and they abuse that hard. These special builds and tacticts have been known for a long time now but somehow there seems to be no need to change anything - especially if it's about chaos or chaos#2 (GK)


EDIT: just another example of perfect balance

I usually play IG but sometimes, when playing vs IG, I avoid the mirror match by playing eldar. The usual BS-Build is now to get a 3x dire avengers + WL and whenever you see IG coming you just cast destructor+immolate - if there should be anything left you just throw your grenades in. Both WL abilities have a very short cast time and good range and are way superior to anything IG's Inq has on t1 (but the Inq has horrible long casting times for weaker abilities...). In addition immolate deals crazy damage to buildings which MUST be nerfed. As soon as you reach T2 just get Wraith Guard and on T3 a D-Cannon. sure, IG has a chance to win this MU if they use spotters or the LG but as far as I think it's really easy mode on eldar side and very hard for IG

No MU is "impossible" to win.

1. The GK rhino is undoubtedly OP atm, however its influence in the MUs in which GK participate has been overhyped quite considerably recently which is no doubt thanks to Ven and his stream-ranting

Seriously though, it's not got huge dps, it ain't gonna burn down your farms in T1 (although the purgs/SS it carries very well may) and it still dies very quickly to melee flanks. It overperforms, but honestly I don't think that even makes GK favourable in most of their MUs. You have to consider more than just the one unit of course. IG sentinels were great in retail, looking at them specifically they were OP, but IG as a race on the whole were not. Same applies here. GK atm are probably favoured vs SM and chaos. They are quite well balanced vs IG/eldar (although warlock gives them lots of trouble). They are utterly useless vs nids/orks.

2. Tyranids are pretty OP in general. Zoans are really the biggest source of the problem, but the LA himself too. The HT can be pretty rough in team games for sure though, but if he didn't have zoans he'd still be quite the push-over. Zoans man.

3. Definitely not true. In fact, SM favours CSM in this MU at high level. At low level that's probably different but only because of how easy the CL, tics and all chaos T2 units are to use - they're all very effective if you just A-move them. At high level though that a-moving won't cut it and their units don't have the mobility, the abilities or the synergy to be as effective as SM and they just end up bleeding endlessly to a race like SM while simultaneously losing map control.

Here's one video, although it is just one so don't take my word on it, rather watch me play SM vs CSM. I struggle to encourage you to watch anyone else's SM play in particular other than the obvious Noisy/Toil because, well people now-a-days are bad and so they don't use SM how they are meant to be used because it requires more micro than they are capable of. Cheeky Monkie often pushes the boundaries though through his inspirational librarian usage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PK2bq3Tjdk&t=1h21m58s - My apo vs Riku's CL on Quest's Heresy.

In this video the map heavily favoured the CL too. Of course, Riku wasn't trying, because he only tries vs GK. I wasn't trying either though as one never has to try when playing apo.

Why do you avoid the mirror MU? That's one MU out of six that IG can play. You're missing out on a big part of IG gameplay. I don't really understand why people dislike mirrors. They're the most balanced of all MUs if nothing else. SM/CSM/GK/eldar mirrors I get because they're really slow or for eldar there is just no fighting, just constant back-capping and model sniping. Ork/nid/IG mirrors are awesome though. Really fast paced.

2x sentinels will deal with triple avengers quite well. If they go really heavy with 2 shuris+3 DA then fast tech on spotters and play defensively in T1, forcing retreats on squads with your spotter's mortar shell.

[enasni127]

No MU is "impossible" to win.

....REALLY?!

It was you who said this:

The bunker costs more but to compensate for that its regen is better than that of the nest's, but the nest is T1 which honestly is probably the strongest thing about the nest, in 1v1 the nest makes the IG vs HT MU impossible, like, just impossible. IG don't get anything that can square off against a BSWB + 3x terms with IS HT near a nest at their farm. And it really isn't as simple as "just bash with a flamer GM". The nid will have better map control, the nid is faster than you etc etc.

So, is it impossible or is it not?!


The rest without quotes cause it's faster:

Mirrors: I like mirrors pretty much but, as i said, sometimes i like winning and as an IG player I know what's good vs them from the receiving end. Actually some races have it very easy to own IG.

GK Rhino: It is far more op than you might think imo for 4 reasons.

1.In general you will have to use power melee vs the rhino (a unit which has FOTM and is filled with supression-units with aoe damage). SM and Chaos are bad here but IG is a bad idea as well and I know that for sure. Catachans are too slow and too fragile and have too little power melee dps to get it down and usually are focused down as soon as they reach the rhino...IF they can reach it. usually it just drives away.

2. if you look at how much damage weapon teams deal to SHI armor (please do that!) you will realize why the sentinel only has standard HI armor. The rhino can break through setup teams and survives but then there are even units in it...
you say the sentinel was op in retail? how can a SHI transport then be anything else than hardcore-op

3. mobility: you can genbash easily with a purgations squad inside the rhino or drive stormtroopers to cap everything everywhere with ease. and NO RACE IN THIS GAME has a counter to this BS on t1....

4. the rhino is by far too cheap! how can a unit like the rhino, which is outstanding great (op) on t1 only cost 180/30? I'm sure many people don't even know how little it costs.

i really like most of your posts and appreciate you as a forum poster with good knowledge and as a mannered and skilled player, but i really won't accept any positive opinions about the gk rhino bein available on t1 with SHI infantry and transport-ability at a ridiculous cost of 180/30

[enasni127]

3. chaos vs space marine feels exactly like that atm imo. Whenever I see casts or replays it looks like SM just can't stop chaos and loses every engagement if they aren't heavily superior in numbers. I'm not an expert here cause I don't play SM myself. It's just what I see and hear people saying.

Not sure if heresy...

In your mind, what are some typical engagements in which SM gets utterly steamrolled by chaos?

From my experiences as non-sm-player (replays, indrids casts...) it feels like chaos t1 is a direct upgrade to sm. Scouts don't counter heretics without support. If heretics are supported and scouts are supported, usually chaos wins the early engagements cause their tacs are cheaper and so they have more on the field earlier. Havocs seem to be better than devastators. Noise marines are a unit which i would love to be removed from the game, cause they are SOOO super-versatile and quite cheap. Most chaos units seem to be soft-counters vs range, melee and even setups - not so the sm units which often have dedicated rolls. Imo the chaos dreadnaught is superior in its upgrades to the sm variant and i really think it's better to have tzeentch bolters, slaughter(which i consider being op) and the khorne upgrade than being able to switch weapons multiple times (sm tacs) and so on and so on

I think it is different in 1on1's where cap speed, multitasking, splitting and positioning of units etc are more important but in 2v2's or 3v3's where big armies clash, it just looks like chaos would totally roll over sm.

[Cheah18]

They are quite well balanced vs IG/eldar (although warlock gives them lots of trouble).

My experience leads me to disagree with you on this one. Map control isn't the start of the problem, but as always with IG it comes down to that being the last nail in the coffin (straw camel back whatever).

Let's assume 2gm, 2 sent, catas (not necessarily in that order but yeh). Sentinels do a great job of running around the map fighting off IST, but through supporting them with gm you really end up with no pushing power/map control. The mechanics of the BroCap really shake things up because with the 100/20 Blessed Aegis (which people haven't talked about much, but I think is really quite imba atm), make it so SO hard to force him off if he is supported by other troops. It also makes your heroes a lot less effective because of the crazy tanky regen. Unlike FC, who can't tank and can be knocked back, he is incredibly hard to force off and is great for harassing repairing gm. Coupled with SS who have respectable dps (who can pose a melee threat to your heroes as well, given their specials more, than CSM can) and ranged ist, the dps they churn out can threaten sents. Throw in a rhino and an incinerator and you now have a collection of units (ist + ss) that you just can't defeat in ranged combat and that can mostly ALWAYS escape if threatened. Catas are useful for brocap but do nothing against the rhino's hit and run functionality. Your generators are exposed for long amounts of time while you try to regain the map. The only bleed advantage you get is from ISTs which can do a good enough job avoiding you while SS and BroCap (and now, rhino) tank. BroCap reks HWT

Unlike vs chaos, where going heavy and playing defensively through tier 1 is viable (as chaos needs to go heavy too in order to stay in it), GK can just respond to your strategy and take either the eco/fast tech advantage (which WILL end up defeating you) or just bludgeon you and your gens. Defensive stands have little to 0 chance (with double sent still, because other builds are even worse) against the BroCap and rhino clown car. Come tier 2 the fast SHI lascannon rhino upgrade is unstoppable by now. And unlike SM, where scouts have low dps and can be forced off QUICKLY (their 'versatility' is of little use vs IG as you're not looking at any melee or jump units)

An IG cap unit would allow for hard defensive play while at least maintaining SOME map presence (you can back cap and draw some attention. But now its just pick your poison.

I haven't been very clear here, sorry I'm tired. But I strongly disagree with the notion that this MU is balanced. Tier 1 is a disaster imo (but a subtle one that is not clear as to why) and they just finish the job come tier 2. If you're still in it by 2 however, the game is a good one.