CSM dread autocannon

[Max_Damage]

So i ve downloaded the mod and here s what makes me upset.

The default csm dread is in its Relic state.
I think everyone can very well understand the fact that default csm dreadnought is worthless and has bee since the game's release. And there s a question why hasnt it been fixed?

lower hp (1000), 43 dps point damage(vs 55 sm), tiny bit of splash, lower range then assault cannon SM dread(38 v 45), no ability

This is an embarassment rly.

Ok it should keep its lower hp (maybe?) but insdead it should get a good chunk of DPS, range and ability to compensate for it, the same was as CSM ranged terminators work.

Range 45, autocannon dps 33 (from current 18) same as havok, maybe an ability. Then it would possibly be worth it if not for the tanking like sm dread but at least for crowd damage against IG etc.

Pls do something like that in your nearest patch.

Also, i forgot about this one. So you have removed melee resistance from the ranged dreads. But its a bad fix. Its another nail in the coffin for csm dreadnought as if you wanted to nerf it even more. Also, ranged wraithlord has its melee resistance right?

[Sturnn]

SM Dred with AC costs 550/150 and you want it to comapre with vanila Chaos Dred? Chaos Dred has its own upgrades so if you want to play him in his starting state you had to deal with that he will underperform in it.

[Dark Riku]

And you make me upset Max-Damage.

[egewithin]

Actually; CSM Dread is a pretty cool machine. It starts with an anti-everything weapon which is awsome. Even some players keeps their autocannon without any mark. The autocannon is not bad, just not as good as havoc or Termie variants.

Also, a quick CSM Dread can be a big pimp for enemy. Force him for melee, everyone will run. While they run he will shoot with his cannon which is scary. Also, a pure Dread is a big threat for enemy cause he says : " I hear that you will go for a Razorback, call be back when you have it so I can bring my MIIISSAAAAUULLLZZZ!!" or : " Oh you have Puirifys! Better get mu claw for a BLOOD HUG! "

Love the Autocannon, care the autocannon...

[Ven]

its pretty much a given at this point that the default CSM dread is kinda crap. personally i think the splash should be removed and the damage increased a little.

lets just compare it to the other Default Dreads for a second

Chaos Dread:
Cost: 410/120
Does 17.78 autocannon dps and 73.33 melee_heavy. there is also the storm bolters but noone cares about them.

SM dread:
Cost: 450/120, so only 40 req more than the default Chaos dread
Does 100 Melee_Heavy damage, not to mention the inspiration on kill, the fact it has an ability out the gate AND has more HP than the chaos dread.

GK Dread:
Cost: 410/120
Does 51.94 Piercing damage and 73.33 Melee_Heavy out the gate and more HP than the chaos dread

so there is a clear difference.

ofcource these are just the default variants and the chaos dread arguably has the best weapon upgrades of any walker (par maybe the wraithlord) and there is also other variants to account for such as army composition etc.

but yes. i personally agree that the autocannon underperforms for a walker out the gate and like i said earlier, my proposed change is to remove the splash and give it a damage buff, maybe to somewhere around the lines of 20-25dps or there abouts, maybe reduce its range if needed.

[Nurland]

You are disregarding the hull mounted bolters entirely. I think CSM Dread is pretty decent in its vanilla form.

[Sub_Zero]

I would only increase the DPS maybe to 20 and be done with it. Splash, damage to everything is alright for the default form of this walker. Maybe I would like to see mark of Nurgle with an appropriate price and improvements for this autocannon as well as some interesting ability and other things.

[Protagonist]

It could use a slight increase in its dps with the Autocannon but to say its default state is useless... that is a bit of an exaggeration.

[Ar-Aamon]

The CSM dread autocannon is fine. You might think the DPS isn't very high but it does good damage to vehicles which is a big plus. You can force melee and the Dread is firing while chasing T2 vehicles. If the big guns are fielded in T3 it's time to get some marks on your dread.

[Jes]

there is also the storm bolters but noone cares about them.

That is truer than you know.

Even Relic dropped the ball on that one - both stormbolters actually use the same offsets and animtable, in essence being the exact same weapon. (just artificially doubled dps)
Doesn't help there's only one actual stormbolter on the model, and that the autocannon triggers it's firing animation along with it's own, NOT the stormbolter.

Way to go Relic, GG NO RE. I need to get off my ass and set up the model editor already, cook up a fix for this mess.

[Surprise Attack!]

The reason why everyone brings up the sm dread when they talk about the chaos dread is because the sm dread is pretty good out of the box - and in many cases there's no reason to ever "upgrade" them with another weapon.

Compared to the chaos dread, which you basically never ever want in its default state.

That being said, I feel the chaos dreadnoughts are fine. Like anything else chaos, they lack flexibility but become more differentiated when they do get upgraded(see kcsm vs tcsm), but the upgrades more than make up their cost.

If anything, the only thing that could be done with the default chaos dread is to tune it's weapon, rather than buff it.

In my opinion we should reduce or eliminate the splash on the autocannon and increase its DPS slightly - giving chaos players a reason to use the autocannon, and making the default csm dread more useful against single entities, but less useful vs squads.

The problem to this consideration though is that it would also buff the Dread's performance vs. vehicles, which would be overpowered, in my opinion.

[lolzarz]

I advocate removing the splash from Mark of Tzeentch and give the autocannon a damage buff. Would solve the issue that the cannon is bad, and also that of the missile launcher being able to gib everything on the enemy army. Change the missile launcher to a anti-vehicle weapon and let the autocannon take the role of a general counter to everything, because literally every single other autocannon does that.

[Daddy]

The CSM Dred has an autocannon which is good vs everything. If the damage is to be increased, it should not be by very much.

IMO you really should be getting the dred for MOT or MOK where it really excels. If the base damage was increased a lot, then it would make MOK and MOT less valuable as the autocannon is definitely the safer choice vs all targets.

I think the way it is now, it forces the player to commit to one of the marks. You build the dread, wait and see what your opponents has then give it a mark that counters.

Or you see a threat, then build the dread and give it a mark.

[Myrdal]

Even Relic dropped the ball on that one - both stormbolters actually use the same offsets and animtable, in essence being the exact same weapon. (just artificially doubled dps)
Doesn't help there's only one actual stormbolter on the model, and that the autocannon triggers it's firing animation along with it's own, NOT the stormbolter.

Way to go Relic, GG NO RE. I need to get off my ass and set up the model editor already, cook up a fix for this mess.

Off topic but any luck fixing that? I noticed the stormbolters are directly set in the entity combat extensions rather than in a wargear equipment. I wonder if that's the problem since the weapon slot is defined in the wargear.
All weapons sharing weapon slot 1 also means our sync-kill override fails because the scar function provided assumes melee weapon on slot 2 (as is usually the case).

On topic, 23 piercing + 18 autocannon with splash is pretty decent. I'm more worried about the splash on the MoT dread with its randomness and absurd damage spikes.

[Nurland]

Yeah. MoT anti-inf damage is too random. It can do insane damage or just fuck all with the standard missiles. Barrage damage + suppression is a bit too much atm against some factions.

[Jes]

Off topic but any luck fixing that? I noticed the stormbolters are directly set in the entity combat extensions rather than in a wargear equipment. I wonder if that's the problem since the weapon slot is defined in the wargear.
All weapons sharing weapon slot 1 also means our sync-kill override fails because the scar function provided assumes melee weapon on slot 2 (as is usually the case).

Unfortunately I haven't even been able to try. My laptop is out of action atm for repairs (busted gpu ram), so even if I had any free time...

And no, I doubt that it not using a wargear is to blame.