Ork Topic

[Caeltos]

Ace, I'll have to disagree abit. By the record of expanding things, you're looking to fill the gaps of factions, but ensuring there's a countermeasure from other races to deal with the new threats.

Every faction got expanded utility & improvements. Nids & Orks just happends to be the latest one, so they're bound to get backlash to some degree, and I'm not that surprised. . A poor implementation would be to implement something that a faction already has available to them. Overlapping roles, so to speak. And of course, knowing it should become accessible to them and where the issue lies.

It's easy to put the blame on something new, and look- I'm not saying the latest additions has been without faults, there's been some missteps and issues along the way, but looking back now on the overall progress- I'm relatively happy with how things turned out.

Trust me on this, it's easy for a player to look on the map and identify the new unit/abilitiy itself and then go "THAT THING, THAT THING IS RUINING IT FOR ME", when there's a present fault of missplay, misscommunication, poor unit investments and what have you. People do it all the time, in all games. Scapegoating is far more acceptable then admiting to ones mistake.

When I sit down and start structuing and add stuff in, I don't do it without taking into consideration of multiple and various factors. I need to picture every single individual race & matchup, and that's alot of work and stresses me out. You'll need to think what existing players do, and what upcoming builds might do. And again, these new "builds" haven't even seen the light of day due to sheer stubborness of players in general, because breaking habbits = hard.

So that's why I'm abit cautious with making changes. I want the players themselves to utilize the stuff available to them and really go haaaay-crazy and find working methods against something that is troubling them. If the feedback is consistent over the course of like, 2-3 months period of time, you know there might be something really wrong, because even the innovative players are struggling, but I wouldn't know- everyone seems be doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

[Asmon]

Also stop with such equations. They are stupid at best.

[Codex]

Well, the equations have some merit, but it's more important to look at the standard timings of stuff with the new builds, for example if you go for a dev instead of ASM in 1v1, you can/should put down 2 gens instead of 1 which changes all the timings related to power.

[Toilailee]

Knob hook does ability knockback, intended? Anyway it should be changed to weapon knockback.

And the effect of knocking units back continues for few seconds, so if he has a short flight with the ability he will keep knocking units back after getting up.
Had a game where Adila used it at low hp and my tics were ready to kill him when he retreated but he knocked them down while retreating instead.

[Lag]

Last time I did that with the Kommando Nob it "knocked back" a SM Dreadnaught (sent it flying very far). I'll try it out a bit more and let you guys known if it happens again.

[FiSH]

i posted about knob sending walkers flying before on my kaboom post.
knob's kaboom can send walkers flying somewhat well, and tyrant guard every single time.

[Lag]

Oh yeah, it was Kaboom, not the Hook. Good one!

[Kvek]

I play knob a lot but never happend to me. Well i never tried to kill a dreadnought with kaboom xD.

[Vapor]

Kaboom doesn't knock back walkers reliably but it can be done. I wonder if the knockback is intended, I mean nothing else in the game can knock back walkers, but then again this explosion is supposedly massive...

[Orkfaeller]

So its not directly a Balance idea, but I don't think its worth opening a thread for it:



Anyone else played with the idea of replacing the Stormboy-Nobz' Choppa with a Chainaxe or a Hammer?

Something that fits his Heavy Meele attacks more?

I mean, he would loose is Pistol but I dont know if that thing is able to shoot anything anyways.

Just allways bugged me a bit seeing him taking down Vehicles and whatnot with his tiny little knife.

[FiSH]

[Orkfaeller]

Good Point there, FiSH.

But I'd like to remind at the same time that Bigga iz Betta and so my suggestion still should be considered.

[PhatE]

So its not directly a Balance idea, but I don't think its worth opening a thread for it:<br sab="285"><br sab="286"><br sab="287"><br sab="288">Anyone else played with the idea of replacing the Stormboy-Nobz' Choppa with a Chainaxe or a Hammer?<br sab="289"><br sab="290">Something that fits his Heavy Meele attacks more?<br sab="291"><br sab="292">I mean, he would loose is Pistol but I dont know if that thing is able to shoot anything anyways.<br sab="293"><br sab="294">Just allways bugged me a bit seeing him taking down Vehicles and whatnot with his tiny little knife.

If the swing is the same speed as either of the suggested then the damage would need to be increased to compensate for the DPS I would think, otherwise it would be a nerf to the damage.

Although while that would be nice for aesthetic reasons to some people, probably why you brought it up and I'm sure you're not alone, I actually like it as the knife even though it doesn't make a huge deal of sense. He's kind of like the Ork version of Crocodile Dundee and by no means is that knife small

[Orkfaeller]

Didn't Lulgrim confirm that you could basically replace any animation withou having any influence on the actual damage output? Ofcourse his "ranged" attack would be gone unless you'd want him to shoot mind-bullets.



I think the thing that just bugged me is that Slugga Nobz only do Powermelee ( or is it regular melee damage? ) while the Stormboy Nobz do Heavy Melee with the same Loadout at the same time Real Nobz do the same damage type but need Chainaxes to do so.

Like I said, I dont even play Orks (that often) and its just a small detail, but I thought it would be nice to have a bit more consistency.

Now look at that badboy.

[Dark Riku]

Guess they could give him a "mini one handed axe?" to visualize his heavy melee?
If there is a model for it and if they wish to put the work into implementing it.

I wouldn't mind it. I don't think anyone would.
But it's not something that has any high priority.

Don't think this belongs in the Ork balance topic though.
Better post it somewhere else next time.

[Lag]

The Mekboy mines stun vehicles for an insane amount of time. Just measured it, it is 30 seconds.

Don't know if I should post that to bugs or balance. :P

[Codex]

Just to be clear, it's not a stun but a slow, unless my memory fails me.

[Raffa]

The Mekboy mines stun vehicles for an insane amount of time. Just measured it, it is 30 seconds.

Don't know if I should post that to bugs or balance.

One mine does a 30 second snare? Thought it was 10ish.

[Lag]

Just to be clear, it's not a stun but a slow, unless my memory fails me.

Melta bomb effect, yes.

[Lag]

The Mekboy mines stun vehicles for an insane amount of time. Just measured it, it is 30 seconds.

Don't know if I should post that to bugs or balance.

One mine does a 30 second snare? Thought it was 10ish.

That's because whatever gets stunned becomes dead within the first 10 seconds.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

some sort of deal with burrow traps except they stack and they stun everything inside too.

i once ran over six in a row with a falcon on accident. had all the nids right behind me (which is why i kept going and hit all six) and when the falcon slowed to a crawl and i ejected everyone they were all stunned and i had to mass retreat. didn't show up in the replay though.

[Batpimp]

Another wargear that I believe should be looked at is spiky armor for the Warboss. I get the nerf to HP regen on it, because of the restoration of angry bits regen and what would be stacking regen similar to painboy+bits, but I just can't ever justify spending 25/30? power on 250 hp with an passive ability that is, well, useless. Cyborg implants is cheaper and gives a nice hp buff (only 50 less than spiky armor) with an awesome ability if you can hit with it. Not entirely sure what could be done with it, more hp might be a bit much for enemy t1 armies to handle, more regen would be broken in combo with angry bits, and a buff to it's useless passive ability would probably still not do anything. Perhaps let the armor give the Warboss a very slight splash damage on melee attacks? Maybe move it to t2 and let it enhance speed or something?

The rest of his wargear is pretty nice at the moment, loving what has been done with the enhanced custom shoota, angry bits, cybork, and trophy rack.

I was just about to make a post on this. I almost NEVER see this weargear. It seems very underused. I feel it does not synergize with the warboss army composition. it is more a passive that helps the warboss himself but nothing else. The improved stomp is a lot better. I agree with MyMe that something needs to be done? I like the splash damage idea or maybe every time he is struck it reduces incoming dmg for his alliend infantry for like 2-5 seconds with 5 stacks of some type. Just throwing out ideas since it seems its almost worthless and VERY situational

[Dark Riku]

Arguments have already been made on this topic about that wargear.
And it's just fine imo. No melee squad will dare to attack the wb with this thing on.
Unless they wanna die.

[Tex]

Thats funny Riku. Because when I see somebody get this wargear, here is what I do. First I laugh. Second I shoot/surpess the warboss. Third, I kill the warboss with melee units like banshees asm stormboyz etc that don't have pathetic hp OR I get another supression unit because I see that the warboss just wasted a ton of resource on an ineffective wargear.

[Dark Riku]

I don't see how that is funny. :/

Shooting and/or suppressing the wb is a counter to him, armor or not.

A wb player isn't going to get this vs a shooty build either.
Unless it's purely for the regen and charge combo.

[Tex]

See that's your error right there Riku. Doing anything other than a shooty build vs the warboss is a great way to put yourself on the backfoot. His globals inherently force you into shooty builds as it is.

So why don't I put it this way then: Can you tell me when I should use spiky armor, taking into consideration the logical information provided about warboss globals?

[Dark Riku]

Warboss globals don't make melee completely useless against him.
The WB doesn't has the red to be popping the globals the entire game.
With that logic the big stomp is a useless upgrade as well.

You always want some kind of melee, even vs the Warboss.


And if you could stop acting so smug and pulling up necro threads would be cool too.

[Codex]

Alright guys, let's play nice.

I would agree with Riku that some kind of melee presence is highly desirable against warboss. If for nothing more than taking advantage of overaggressive Warboss plays into suppression (moving melee into his retreat path) or as a melee barrier to prevent UYC Stormz roflstomping all over your position.

[Tex]

I did notice that both of you declined to answer the pressing question though.

[Codex]

The times I've played Warboss and had good effect from Spikey Armor would be typically during 2v2s and 3v3s where I'm against some ork or nid who thinks melee heavy builds are the way forward. And so I pick up Spikey Armor (I know, crazy right!). I do believe that it does a splash of piercing damage in response to every melee hit so it does tear through basic melee infantry, and indeed even the more fragile T2 infantry. That said, these kinds of builds simply aren't all too popular in the metagame and I think it's more common to come up against melee troops with Warboss in team games than 1v1, partly because they aren't building their army to counter yours and yours only.

This isn't a real time interview, I didn't decline to give an answer. Sometimes people want to think about what they post before they post, you know, to try to check their facts and distil their thoughts.